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hankpage
06-14-2012, 09:48 AM
I was just reading an article on the Gulf oil spill clean up and noticed something that surprised me. Dawn is a petroleum based detergent. Many of our members have stated that they use Dawn to clean their trailer roofs. (Myself included) All the warnings for RV EPDM roof material say"Avoid the use of petroleum products." :confused:
Have we been doing more harm than good????
On commercial EPDM roofs (black) we always used unleaded gasoline to prep the seams for gluing and to clean an area for patching??
Does anyone else have any other info on this subject???? Sometimes I even scare myself when I start thinking, Hank

DocData757
06-14-2012, 10:26 AM
I can't answer the question but I can say the Spic and Span does a great job and, obviously, is not a petroleum product.

SAD
06-14-2012, 02:05 PM
I think what you want to avoid is the use of anything which includes petroleum distillates... Not just any petroleum based product.

hankaye
06-14-2012, 03:51 PM
Hank, Howdy;

just skimming the surface here ...;

http://www.onegoodthingbyjillee.com/2012/05/original-blue-dawn-its-not-just-for-dishes-anymore.html

hankaye :D

hankpage
06-14-2012, 04:58 PM
Hank, Howdy;

just skimming the surface here ...;

http://www.onegoodthingbyjillee.com/2012/05/original-blue-dawn-its-not-just-for-dishes-anymore.html

hankaye :D

Hank, I have been doing plumbing and maintenance work all my life and I must disagree with one of those suggestions. Never put hot water in a toilet ... it will crack it. (ask me how I know this)

I have also been involved with marine mammal rescue for many years so I don't doubt that Dawn is good stuff. My question was as a petroleum based product how does it effect EPDM rubber??? Your wisdom is always appreciated, The other Hank

f6bits
06-14-2012, 05:39 PM
Google for “dawn petroleum distillate” doesn’t turn anything up except *one* claim that Dawn has it.

My opinion is that Dawn is safe, but a call or email to Dicor should clear things up. This Escapees post says that Dicor routinely recommends Dawn:
http://www.rvnetwork.com/index.php?showtopic=89379

Festus2
06-14-2012, 06:24 PM
Hank -
I've Googled Dawn looking for any sign of the words "petroleum distillates" in the literature as to what Dawn contains. All I've seen in the ingredients/contents are numerous chemicals and other products but no mention of anything to do with petroleum distillates or citrus-based products -- another no-no for EPDM roofs.

Dicor recommends a non-abrasive cleaner such as RC 100TM, Borax, or Dawn TM was another statement coming from the Dicor website.
It seems that petroleum distillates somehow react with the EPDM rubber which may cause it to "lift" and possibly form bubbles since the rubber and the adhesive no longer form a proper bond. I wasn't a chemistry major so I have no idea what really takes place.

Not sure if that sheds any light on your concern .........

hankaye
06-14-2012, 08:00 PM
Hank, Howdy;

Here's some good reading;

http://www.ffsinc.com/MSDS/P&Gpdf/Dawn_Detergent.pdf

Section II is probably what was referred to.
Probably a missunderstanding by the person that wrote what you read and caused the ?.
Page 3 Sect. XIV has the transportation requirments. If packaged in bulk (excess of 119 gal.)
then it requires a placard. The Class 3 that would apply is Combustiable.
DOT Reg Part 40 CFR ...

http://environmentalchemistry.com/yogi/hazmat/placards/class3.html

short version from the link ...;

Combustible Liquids
173.120(b)(1)
1.For the purpose of this subchapter, a combustible liquid means any liquid that does not meet the definition of any other hazard class specified in this subchapter and has a flash point above 60.5°C (141°F) and below 93°C (200°F).
2.A flammable liquid with a flash point at or above 38°C (100°F) that does not meet the definition of any other hazard class may be reclassed as a combustible liquid. This provision does not apply to transportation by vessel or aircraft, except where other means of transportation is impracticable. An elevated temperature material that meets the definition of a Class 3 material because it is intentionally heated and offered for transportation or transported at or above its flash point may not be reclassed as a combustible liquid.
3.A combustible liquid which does not sustain combustion is not subject to the requirements of this subchapter as a combustible liquid. Either the test method specified in ASTM 4206 or the procedure in Appendix H of this part may be used to determine if a material sustains combustion when heated under test conditions and exposed to an external source of flame.

This is the kind of 'stuff' I had to deal with when i hauled Hazardous Waste for a living.

Hang the wrong placard or Not hang a placard and it's a huge fine...

hankaye

JRTJH
06-15-2012, 04:41 AM
According to the MSDS, Dawn has ethanol as an ingredient. Ethanol is combustible so Dawn becomes a flammable cargo when transported in bulk. Has anyone ever tried to ignite Dawn?

From what I can read of the ingredients, the only petroleum based product is a couple of " zene" components. But I'm no chemist, so I may have missed something in my translation of the ingredients.

Hank, like you, I think DOT guidelines for bulk storage and transportation may have confused the issue. In them, from what I can read, no hazard if transported in packaged configuration, but bulk transportation of more than 119 gallons requires placarding as a hazardous cargo.

Festus2
06-15-2012, 07:15 AM
The Dawn that is being referred to in hankaye's link seems to be a commercial grade and consequently may only be used or available in large applications and facilities. I am thinking of restaurants or other establishments that go through a lot of dishes.
As I mentioned earlier, Dicor seems to think it is ok for their products. I use Borax myself whenever I do clean the roof and it performs quite well. I must admit though that it isn't my intention to have the roof "sparkling and shiny clean" like dishes. Clean is good.

hankaye
06-15-2012, 09:00 AM
Howdy All;

The Dawn that is being referred to in hankaye's link seems to be a commercial grade and consequently may only be used or available in large applications and facilities. I am thinking of restaurants or other establishments that go through a lot of dishes.
As I mentioned earlier, Dicor seems to think it is ok for their products. I use Borax myself whenever I do clean the roof and it performs quite well. I must admit though that it isn't my intention to have the roof "sparkling and shiny clean" like dishes. Clean is good.

The 119 gal. figure is a determination of the DOT. Most restraunts buy their Dawn by the bottle or 5 gal. pail. for the pot and pan man, next up the ladder of success is the dishwasher, he has a machine and Dawn dosen't do well in a machine (practical experience = hands on knowledge).


JRTJH Howdy;

"According to the MSDS, Dawn has ethanol as an ingredient. Ethanol is combustible so Dawn becomes a flammable cargo when transported in bulk."

A combustable is NOT a flammable.

http://www.osha.gov/dte/library/flammable_liquids/flammable_liquids.html

Using the wrong placard will result in a fine of LARGE $$$'s !

Yes they will both catch fire when heated to the appropreate temp. Generally Combustables will not sustain the fire on their own as is mentioned in the MSDS.

I'm not trying to be argumentive, the DOT and the Hazmat regs are specific for a reason and the details are importiant. The interperitations are literial.

hankaye

SAABDOCTOR
06-15-2012, 12:02 PM
Oh that's just great the tallaboom is gonna blow us up with soap and when i land in hell i'll explode again with the residue HAHAHA have a great week end all(tx)

BMcCutcheon
06-23-2012, 07:35 AM
LMAO over this thead..... Ok, I will use Dawn next time I clean my roof. Hopefully it will not leave those annoying trails down the side of my RV like the Rubber Roof Cleaner I have been using from my dealer.

Thanks....

Ruffus
06-23-2012, 10:00 AM
"BORAX" those 20 mule teams never used petrolium based products but they did make a little gas from time to time! Sorry I couldn't help myself!:bfart:

hankaye
06-23-2012, 12:16 PM
Ruffus, Howdy;

" "BORAX" those 20 mule teams never used petrolium based products but they did make a little gas from time to time! Sorry I couldn't help myself!"

http://www2.prosarcorp.com/msds_frame.asp?site_id=196&msds_id=685&lang=en

You mak have found a WINNA !!!!!!

hankaye