Heating tank are in basement

[Rhyno]

Hello. We have 316rls. It is skirted. We have a heat pump. I'm concerned that our furnace is not running and there is no heat getting into this area. Our skirted area can get down to between 3 and 6deg c. And suggestions on another way to get heat into the tank area?
Thanks

[JRTJH]

I'm not sure "what" heat pump you are talking about... If you have a "roof mounted heat pump/air conditioner" then most do not produce heat below about 35F and are wired so that the furnace comes on when the thermostat calls for heat below that "set temperature".

What typically happens is that you set the thermostat for 70F, it's 55F outside, so the heat pump comes on to produce heat through the ceiling ductwork. As the outside temperature falls, once it reaches the "heat pump limit temperature" then the control circuit disables the heat pump and transfers the "heat demand" to the furnace. It ignites and produces heat, which is routed through the floor ducting, some of which is used to heat the tanks in the belly.

Depending on your thermostat "rooftop fan setting" your rooftop fan may or may not continue to run, augmenting air movement inside the trailer.....

If your heat pump continues to run without the furnace below about 35F, then you may have a failed temperature sensor in the rooftop unit. It should "lock out the heat pump function" when the temperature falls below the "set point"....

[Rhyno]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

I'm not sure "what" heat pump you are talking about... If you have a "roof mounted heat pump/air conditioner" then most do not produce heat below about 35F and are wired so that the furnace comes on when the thermostat calls for heat below that "set temperature".

What typically happens is that you set the thermostat for 70F, it's 55F outside, so the heat pump comes on to produce heat through the ceiling ductwork. As the outside temperature falls, once it reaches the "heat pump limit temperature" then the control circuit disables the heat pump and transfers the "heat demand" to the furnace. It ignites and produces heat, which is routed through the floor ducting, some of which is used to heat the tanks in the belly.

Depending on your thermostat "rooftop fan setting" your rooftop fan may or may not continue to run, augmenting air movement inside the trailer.....

If your heat pump continues to run without the furnace below about 35F, then you may have a failed temperature sensor in the rooftop unit. It should "lock out the heat pump function" when the temperature falls below the "set point"....

We have a stand alone heat pump.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by Rhyno

We have a stand alone heat pump.

In a Keystone trailer ??? What kind is it? Keystone doesn't install a "stand alone heat pump". They install roof mount heat pumps that are controlled by the In-Command system or are integrated with the propane furnace through a control system in the heat pump rooftop system.

What brand/model stand alone heat pump do you have and did it come from Keystone or was it a dealer/aftermarket installation?

[Rhyno]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

In a Keystone trailer ??? What kind is it? Keystone doesn't install a "stand alone heat pump". They install roof mount heat pumps that are controlled by the In-Command system or are integrated with the propane furnace through a control system in the heat pump rooftop system.

What brand/model stand alone heat pump do you have and did it come from Keystone or was it a dealer/aftermarket installation?

It's a house type unit that fits an rv perfect. We are in a permanent spot and live in our rig full time.

[JRTJH]

Then whoever installed your stand alone heat pump bypassed your OEM thermostat furnace/heat pump integration and disabled your furnace from the heat pump operation.

The way the OEM equipment works is when you select heat pump on the thermostat, the overhead A/C-heat pump operates and provides warm air through the ceiling ductwork until the outdoor ambient temperature falls to about 30-35F. At that point, the heat pump stops and the thermostat calls for furnace operation. When the furnace operates, it blows warm air in the belly.
The overhead unit fan may continue to operate to help move air through the trailer, but the heat pump compressor is disabled and provides no cooling or heating until the outside temperature rises above the setpoint.

ADDED: Here's the way Dometic explains it.

I'd guess that whoever installed your "stand alone heat pump" either disabled the OEM thermostat and replaced it with a new type or they failed to wire the control system (that was in your OEM rooftop unit) so the new thermostat integrates the new overhead unit with the OEM furnace.

How to fix it ???? Without knowing what you have and how they installed and wired it, it's impossible to suggest a fix.

[Rhyno]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

Then whoever installed your stand alone heat pump bypassed your OEM thermostat furnace/heat pump integration and disabled your furnace from the heat pump operation.

The way the OEM equipment works is when you select heat pump on the thermostat, the overhead A/C-heat pump operates and provides warm air through the ceiling ductwork until the outdoor ambient temperature falls to about 30-35F. At that point, the heat pump stops and the thermostat calls for furnace operation. When the furnace operates, it blows warm air in the belly.
The overhead unit fan may continue to operate to help move air through the trailer, but the heat pump compressor is disabled and provides no cooling or heating until the outside temperature rises above the setpoint.

ADDED: Here's the way Dometic explains it.

I'd guess that whoever installed your "stand alone heat pump" either disabled the OEM thermostat and replaced it with a new type or they failed to wire the control system (that was in your OEM rooftop unit) so the new thermostat integrates the new overhead unit with the OEM furnace.

How to fix it ???? Without knowing what you have and how they installed and wired it, it's impossible to suggest a fix.

It is completely stand alone. It does not connect to the trailer at all. Has all its own programming.

[Rhyno]

This is our heat pump install

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by Rhyno

It is completely stand alone. It does not connect to the trailer at all. Has all its own programming.

So, it sounds like you took the OEM equipment off the trailer, whether it was just the rooftop unit or also the propane furnace is unknown by me. If they left the furnace, they need to incorporate it to run with their system or their unit has a limitation that you'll need to overcome. Does your existing furnace still work with the thermostat? If it does, you can always turn off the heat pump and turn on the furnace during especially cold temperatures.

Otherwise, I'd recommend calling the people who did the installation and discuss with them how to incorporate your existing furnace with their heat pump. In the event that they also removed your propane furnace, I'd discuss with them what they can do to incorporate ductwork that can carry heat from their unit to the basement/belly of the trailer....

What they did, bypassed all the heating the OEM design provided to your underbelly. THEY took it out, THEY need to know what limits they left you with and THEY need to design a means to "finish what they left vulnerable"...

It's not your "fault" it's like this, but without being there, trying to fix a "one of a kind installation" is near impossible.

IMO, they need to finish what they left you with since the job isn't doing what it needs to do.

[JRTJH]

What you posted photos of is a "standard home split unit A/C-heat pump" I have one in our sunroom on the back of the house.

There is no way, IMO, to add ducting to the basement "FROM THAT UNIT" (unless you add another interior unit below the floor and I would never try that)...

What you may discuss with your installer or try to formulate on your own, is a fan located somewhere in your trailer with ducting from the existing furnace (floor) ducting, to "capture some interior warm air" and blow it from inside the trailer cabin to the underfloor heat ducting with hopes that it will be enough heat to keep things from freezing.

You "SHOULD" still have heat pads on your holding tanks that are controlled by switches near your trailer control panel/In-Command system panel. So, by turning them on, you can keep the actual tanks from freezing, but that won't do anything to protect any fresh water plumbing that may be under the floor or near the walls, in cabinets above the floor.

You never said whether your OEM furnace is still in the trailer and whether it's operational or not.... That is your "safe option" if it's still operational. If it's not, then you'll need to come up with some means to get heat into the basement/belly.

[Rhyno]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

What you posted photos of is a "standard home split unit A/C-heat pump" I have one in our sunroom on the back of the house.

There is no way, IMO, to add ducting to the basement "FROM THAT UNIT" (unless you add another interior unit below the floor and I would never try that)...

What you may discuss with your installer or try to formulate on your own, is a fan located somewhere in your trailer with ducting from the existing furnace (floor) ducting, to "capture some interior warm air" and blow it from inside the trailer cabin to the underfloor heat ducting with hopes that it will be enough heat to keep things from freezing.

You "SHOULD" still have heat pads on your holding tanks that are controlled by switches near your trailer control panel/In-Command system panel. So, by turning them on, you can keep the actual tanks from freezing, but that won't do anything to protect any fresh water plumbing that may be under the floor or near the walls, in cabinets above the floor.

You never said whether your OEM furnace is still in the trailer and whether it's operational or not.... That is your "safe option" if it's still operational. If it's not, then you'll need to come up with some means to get heat into the basement/belly.

Yes the furnace works fine. I'm going to try running a schedule furnace run during the night.

[JRTJH]

If the furnace is operational and has not been altered, the ducting is connected both to the cabin heat vents but also to vents in the belly/basement. Additionally, the "mylar ducting" (similar to dryer vent ducting) transfers heat as the hot air blows through the ducting. That heat helps keep the belly and basement warm.

Although some "salesmen" will hype the benefits of a heat pump, the majority do not produce heat from the compressor below about 5 degrees, and it is minimal at that temperature. Around 30F, the ability to efficiently produce heat "starts to go the wrong direction" and most units have a heating element that "assists the compressor" in providing heat for the interior unit to blow into the room. Ours has a 4000 BTU electric element in the inside unit. At around 30F, I can watch the electrical consumption start to climb and around 10F, the unit consumes as much/more energy than the electric garage heater that's over my workbench in the pole barn. Essentially, around 10F, the split unit heat pump becomes a "resistive electric heater" and is a "power hungry way to heat the room"....

It's my opinion that if you expect to keep the tanks and belly plumbing functional this winter, when the temperature drops below freezing, I'd set the split unit thermostat at 70F (or whatever is comfortable for you) and set the furnace thermostat 2 or 3 degrees below that. Doing that will set the furnace to "assist if the heat pump can't keep up" and when the furnace does come on, it will augment heat in the belly. By experimenting, you can find the "sweet spot" where the furnace runs a few minutes, the heat pump runs a few minutes and they work together.

You might also want to explore renting a 100 gallon or a 250 gallon propane tank rather than buying it 30 pounds at a time (filling the RV tanks). It's significantly cheaper to buy propane in bulk quantities instead of 7 gallon increments. You'll go through 7 gallons (a 30 pound tank) every 3 or 4 days in extreme cold temperatures where a 100 gallon tank will last 3 weeks to 6 weeks between fillings and the propane company will deliver on a regular basis without you having to remove the smaller tanks and tote them to a filling station.

[Rhyno]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

If the furnace is operational and has not been altered, the ducting is connected both to the cabin heat vents but also to vents in the belly/basement. Additionally, the "mylar ducting" (similar to dryer vent ducting) transfers heat as the hot air blows through the ducting. That heat helps keep the belly and basement warm.

Although some "salesmen" will hype the benefits of a heat pump, the majority do not produce heat from the compressor below about 5 degrees, and it is minimal at that temperature. Around 30F, the ability to efficiently produce heat "starts to go the wrong direction" and most units have a heating element that "assists the compressor" in providing heat for the interior unit to blow into the room. Ours has a 4000 BTU electric element in the inside unit. At around 30F, I can watch the electrical consumption start to climb and around 10F, the unit consumes as much/more energy than the electric garage heater that's over my workbench in the pole barn. Essentially, around 10F, the split unit heat pump becomes a "resistive electric heater" and is a "power hungry way to heat the room"....

It's my opinion that if you expect to keep the tanks and belly plumbing functional this winter, when the temperature drops below freezing, I'd set the split unit thermostat at 70F (or whatever is comfortable for you) and set the furnace thermostat 2 or 3 degrees below that. Doing that will set the furnace to "assist if the heat pump can't keep up" and when the furnace does come on, it will augment heat in the belly. By experimenting, you can find the "sweet spot" where the furnace runs a few minutes, the heat pump runs a few minutes and they work together.

You might also want to explore renting a 100 gallon or a 250 gallon propane tank rather than buying it 30 pounds at a time (filling the RV tanks). It's significantly cheaper to buy propane in bulk quantities instead of 7 gallon increments. You'll go through 7 gallons (a 30 pound tank) every 3 or 4 days in extreme cold temperatures where a 100 gallon tank will last 3 weeks to 6 weeks between fillings and the propane company will deliver on a regular basis without you having to remove the smaller tanks and tote them to a filling station.

That is what we have. The propane is filled automatically so don't even worry about it. I appreciate all your input.