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Old 02-20-2012, 09:37 PM   #1
SAlexander
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Do I have enough truck?

Hi everybody! I am new the the 5th wheel world, I am looking at a 2012 copper canyon 324FWBHS the booklet that I have has a weight of 10,652, carring capacity of 3,508, I have a 2005 chevy Duramax 2500HD the truck has air bags and a chip/exhaust upgrade. So my question is will this be enough truck to safely pull this rig?
Also any reviews/opinions on this unit?

Thanks in advance
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Old 02-20-2012, 09:48 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SAlexander View Post
Hi everybody! I am new the the 5th wheel world, I am looking at a 2012 copper canyon 324FWBHS the booklet that I have has a weight of 10,652, carring capacity of 3,508, I have a 2005 chevy Duramax 2500HD the truck has air bags and a chip/exhaust upgrade. So my question is will this be enough truck to safely pull this rig?
Also any reviews/opinions on this unit?

Thanks in advance
You got plenty of truck. Enjoy the Copper Canyon!
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Old 02-20-2012, 10:39 PM   #3
Festus2
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A comment about the air bags........
These may assist in making your truck and 5th wheel "sit" more level and may result in a more comfortable ride in the cab. They will not, however, increase the towing capacity or payload of the Chev Duramax.
The question you asked, "Will it be enough truck to safely pull this rig?" shows your concern for safety and others will chime in to answer this question which has been asked many, many times on this forum but often without mentioning "safely".
Welcome to the forum and to the varied opinions you are about to read.
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Old 02-21-2012, 06:29 AM   #4
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WOW THIS IS NICE! SOMEONE ASKING IF THIS IS SAFE. AND HAS A GREAT TV. AT LEAST YOUR NOT TRYING TO PULL IT WITH A SMART CAR!!LOL WITH THE AIR BAGS YOU WILL GET A GREAT RIDE ENJOY YOR RIG!! OW IF YOU TELL ME YOUR RETIRED AND GOING SOUTH I'LL BE JELOUS BURR!! COLD OUT ON MY WAY TO WORK THIS MORNING
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Old 02-21-2012, 06:46 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by SAlexander View Post
Hi everybody! I am new the the 5th wheel world, I am looking at a 2012 copper canyon 324FWBHS the booklet that I have has a weight of 10,652, carring capacity of 3,508, I have a 2005 chevy Duramax 2500HD the truck has air bags and a chip/exhaust upgrade. So my question is will this be enough truck to safely pull this rig?
Also any reviews/opinions on this unit?

Thanks in advance

Hi, and welcome to the forum.

I willing to offer you my opinion and take it for what it is worth $0.02.

A lot depends on what is the differential gearing in the truck and what does Chevy recommend for the GCVW and rear/front axle maximum weight capacities. This sticker will be on your door post. So no matter what anyone else tells you these weights should not be exceeded. These were engineered for safe load carrying and towing ability.

From what you stated in the above post your GCVW of the trailer fully loaded is 14,160 LBS. Using this weight and a 20% transfer of this weight to the king pin this would be 2,832 LBS placed on the rear of the truck for towing. Added to this the hitch weight, full load of fuel, you and your wife plus any children you could easily exceed the GCVW of the truck.

So with all of this I would either consider a lighter 5er or a dually to tow this size 5er.
Jim W.
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Old 02-21-2012, 06:47 AM   #6
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From what I can find on the net. and without knowing what gears your truck has it still looks to me like you will be within the specs of your truck.
So all I can say is be safe and have a great time OH and welcome to the forum
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Old 02-21-2012, 07:20 AM   #7
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WOW !!!! So now you've heard the "yes you can" "No you can't" "You'll be OK" "No you won't" Hmmmmm So you're pretty much right back where you were "BEFORE" you ever asked the question.....

What to do??? What to do ???

I think Jim W offered some pretty sound advice. With your RV weights, the GVW of the trailer should be about 14,100. The "loaded" pin weight will be somewhere around 20% of that, so your pin weight will be nowhere near what is advertised in the brochure. On this trailer it will fall somewhere between 2100 and 3500 (rough estimate). Most hitches weigh between 150 and 400 lbs and need to be added to the weight placed on the truck when towing. Add any cargo in the bed/cab, people (other than the driver) and any other accessories you might add (such as air bags, etc) That total weight is what you need to consider.

On your truck door panel is a decal with max GVW, max GCVW, front axle max weight and rear axle max weight. All of these need to be considered as every one of us tows differently than others.

You will probalby be within your truck's limits with an empty trailer and most likely will be OK with a "moderately" loaded trailer. But, if you load up the bed of your truck, put 5 or 6 adults in the cab, load up your trailer, fill all the tanks you'd probably be pushing the limit or even overload your truck's capacity.

So, yeah, everyone who's offered their 2 cents has been right. It's how you load and what you expect to add to the trailer that might get you in trouble. I'd think that if you load wisely, travel with just your wife and a few things in the cab, you'll be fine, but if you go "overboard", you still can overload that truck/trailer combination and start down the "Unsafely" road pretty easily.

Smart towing and being aware of your rig's weight and I think you'll be fine. Just stay aware of what you're doing...

So now you have yet another 2 cents worth.... Pretty soon, you'll have a dime <G>
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Old 02-21-2012, 08:05 AM   #8
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AND WITH ADIME YOU STILL CAN'T MAKE A PHONE CALL IF YOU CAN FIND A PAY PHONE SO CHECK YOUR DOOR POST ADD IT UP BESAFE
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Old 02-21-2012, 08:28 AM   #9
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Ererybody has opinions, so I'll add mine:
Our rig dry weight pretty much matches yours, our loaded weight for longer term travel (not full time, but long term) is 14000 and a pin weight of 2600. Now as you read in the fine print of the GM towing info there is a little note about max 5th wheel capacity, which is quite a bit less than the max capacity number. I think for a 2500 is 2500 Lbs, SRW 3500 is 3000 Lbs, and Dually is 3500 Lbs.
So will you truck tow it, no doubt, but how safely, you will only know if you get everything weighed in travel trim. Unfortunately by then it's too late. I can tell you right now that a majority of the 5er here at this Snow Bird Resort are pulled by 3/4 ton TVs, a few by 1 ton SRW, and an even smaller number by Duallies. Personally I wouldn't tow any of the mid to larger 5ers with anything less than a dually, but that's our preference. You have to decide what is safest for you and your family.
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Old 02-21-2012, 11:18 AM   #10
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As you can tell, the motto of most RV forums is not only 'you can't have enough truck', it's also 'you don't have enough truck.'
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Old 02-21-2012, 12:08 PM   #11
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[QUOTE=alpine 1;29028]OH MY GOD!!!! I asked the same thing and let me tell you how bad I feel for you. We went to the GM DEALER and he said it will be fine because I don't travel with full tanks of waste, water, etc. and there is no way that I will put 3213lbs in my trailer. I have a 3500 RE Alpine 5th wheel, that weighs 12287 lbs. If you add the 147 lbs for my hitch, myself and my wife..I am still under the recommended weight. I pull this with a 2011 silverado 8ft box, 6.6 Deramax....so unless you plan on over loading your truck, you should be just fine! Just my opinion, works for me. And yes I do this for a living, no disrespect to other members. There is lots of good advice here, and much experience.

Good Luck
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Old 02-21-2012, 12:31 PM   #12
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One other rating to take into account is the tires. Even if the chassis, suspension, and axles can (in theory) handle more weight, the tires are a critical limiting factor. The max load on the tires is dependent on the tire itself and the inflation. Stamped on the tire will be "yyyy max load at xx psi" which for many of us will 80 psi. The load range of the tires generally sets the yyyy figure. There are charts available on the net and from tire dealers.

Real life example: The Michelins on our duallie are Load Range E. The weight ratings are 3042# @ 80 psi in a SRW and 2778# @ 80 psi in a DRW. So for a SRW, the max weight that can safely be placed on the rear tires is 6,084#. And the max weight on the same tires in a DRW would be 11,112#.

But, if you look at the truck specs, the max payload plus curb weight is not as high as the DRW tire capacity at 80 psi. From the door sticker, GAWR for the rear axle is 7,500# at 50 psi. So, back to the Michelin tire chart for the 50 PSI ratings which are 2,205# SRW and 2,006# DRW.

So, for the bottom line on the duallie, max rear axle for the vehicle is 7,500#, and the max for the rear tires is 8,024#. (Obviously, I could air up the tires when carrying/towing heavy loads, but it won't increase the truck rating.)

I don't have comparable SRW axle ratings on the truck to offer, but Michelin's site gives only two ratings for their Load Range E tires. Two are at 2,680# max at 80 psi, and two are at 3,042# at 80 psi. (Apparently different model tires can have slightly different ratings and still be considered Load Range E. I guess that why they call it "range.")

Most of us run Load Range E tires and pretty much all 3/4 and 1 ton trucks come stock from the manufacturer with Load Range E. So, unless there has been an upgrade in the tires, it is fairly safe to say that pretty much any SRW truck is not going to have a max rear axle capacity that exceeds 6,084# at 80 psi. These numbers are from the Michelin charts, but I don't expect that other manufacturers' numbers for Load Range E would vary much.

OK, I probably spent too much time explaining things, but the bottom line for SRW's is that there is every possibility that the tires are the real limiting factor.
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Old 02-21-2012, 12:38 PM   #13
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OK, I probably spent too much time explaining things, but the bottom line for SRW's is that there is every possibility that the tires are the real limiting factor.
Yes. Often the drivetrain, frame, brakes, axle, etc. used on the 2500/3500 trucks are identical, the only real difference being the extra two tires on the rear. The Michelin E-rated tires on my Dodge 2500 CTD are marked max. 3195 lbs. at 80 psi in single applications (dual is a bit less for some reason) and since the 11.5" rear axle used in the HD Dodge diesel pickups is rated at 11,000 lbs. the tires are the real limiting factor so... just shy of 6400 lbs. max gross rear axle weight. Dodge specifies 6000 lbs. as the max. rear gross axle weight, perhaps to provide some headroom, or maybe because sometimes it is delivered with tires rated at 3042 lbs.
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Old 02-21-2012, 12:40 PM   #14
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Alpine 1:
Yes, a short time ago you did ask this very same question and, as expected, you received a variety of differing opinions and recommendations. It seems that, after considering what you read here together with your dealer's advice, that you decided to keep the truck that you had.
As you have found out, the question that you and this recent poster have asked, generates a wide variety of opinions and a lively discussion about "will it or won't it".
When some others have asked this question, it seems as though they have already made up their minds and are looking for validation here on the forum and either accept or ignore the opinions and advice offered by our members.
Others ask the question because they are new to RVing, have never pulled anything before and are seeking guidance and I realize that the advice they get may be all over the map leaving the poster no further ahead than before. Our members do the best they can in trying to help others out and to assist them, based on their own knowledge and experience, in making an informed decision.
The topic is one that doesn't lend itself to consensus and absolute agreement and to suggest that you "feel bad" for someone who happens to ask the same question you did, only adds to the confusion that probably already exists in his/her mind and implies that the suggestions and advice they read in the posts may not be accurate. If you are feeling bad for them because of the wide range of answers they will be getting, that is entirely understandable and very likely to happen.
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Old 02-21-2012, 01:00 PM   #15
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THE ONLY WAY OUT OF THIS IS BUY A FRIEGHTLINER NOW THATS A DAULLY THAT WILL CARRY THE LOAD! AGAIN READ ALL THE INFO ON YOUR TRUCK. REMEMBER THE MANUFACTURER WANTS TO SELL YOU THE TRUCK AND TELL YOU IT WILL HOLD EVERTHING YOU CAN TROW AT IT. THE LAWYERS TELL YOU THAT IF YOU PUT A GAS CAN IN THE BACK(EMPTY OF COURSE) YOU ARE ON YOURE OWN. HA HA A GOOD DUALLY WITH THE TOW PACKAGE IS THE SAFEST WAY TO GO. WHEN I USED TO RIDE A 96 GOLDWING THE WEIGHT IT COULD CARRY WAS ME 255 LBS CLOTHES NO TRAILER AND A HALF A PASSENGER THAT WAS THE LEGAL SIDE OF IT YOU SEE WHAT THEY DO WHEN YOUR ON THE ROADS BUT HONDA ADMITTED THEY RATED IT LOW TO STOP LAWSUITS. BUT I DIGRESS READ THE OWNERS MAHUAL AND BE SAFE
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Old 02-21-2012, 01:20 PM   #16
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I think the simplest explanation is to get the numbers on the door sticker, the tire ratings the weights of the truck and camper loaded (no way will you put over 3000lbs. In the camper) and do the math. Happy Camping, Sam
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Old 02-21-2012, 01:46 PM   #17
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(no way will you put over 3000lbs. In the camper)
My Cougar (and most of the product line) has a 60 gallon fresh water tank, a 38 gallon black water tank, two 38 gallon gray water tanks, and a 6 gallon water heater. That is a total of 180 gallons of water at 8.33 pounds per gallon or 1,499.4 pounds added weight, just traveling with full tanks.

That leaves 1,499.6 pounds of other stuff that one could load into a camper. Given some of the items that folks tend to carry with them for camping trips, I think it would be very, very easy to end up carrying 3,000 pounds or more.

I would agree that most folks would never regularly travel with full tanks, but it is easily conceivable that they might have to travel with full tanks once in a while.

As I have previously recommended, I believe the best thing to do is to estimate how much a rig would weigh fully loaded, including all holding tanks, when calculating tow vehicle needs. (And that is also a major reason that I am very uncomfortable with RV dealers using dry weight to tell a customer if their TV will pull the trailer they are trying to sell.)
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Old 02-21-2012, 02:17 PM   #18
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Really? One would carry a full fresh water tank, a full grey tank and a full black tank? Don't think so. Even still 1500lbs. Of stuff in the camper is a lot. You made my point exactly, very, very few people will put over 3000lbs of stuff in the camper, vying its not a toy hauler with circus animals in it. As I said before, it's best to check all the numbers and do the math. Happy Camping, Sam
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Old 02-21-2012, 02:38 PM   #19
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As one of the few here with a BIG truck, I would buy a Kenworth, Mack or Peterbilt to pull my toy hauler if I had the funds. I do however have what I determined was the next best thing for me. So for my 2 cents, do like others have said and do the math and pick what is the best option for you, with safety in mind at all times. You can NEVER be TOO safe!!!
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Old 02-21-2012, 03:05 PM   #20
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I would agree that most folks would never regularly travel with full tanks, but it is easily conceivable that they might have to travel with full tanks once in a while.
I'm trying to think of an instance when I would have to travel with full fresh water and full holding tanks and drawing a blank. And even if so the occurrence would be so rare that I would not expend a lot of dollars to account for it.

I mean, there's a practical limit to this 'you can't be too safe' stuff because... you can, or at least past some point the safety-to-dollars payoff starts to drop to nill.
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