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Old 08-14-2012, 11:56 AM   #1
datedd
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Maxed Out??

Check this out; this guy is selling a Montana 3100RL pretty much loaded with the ALL the options which includes the leveling system.

His truck is a 2011 Chevy 2500 Duramax which he will sell as a package. By looking at the picture however I don't see any squatting rear end. But I go through the numbers and wonder if this is too much fifth wheel for this truck?
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Old 08-14-2012, 12:13 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by datedd View Post
Check this out; this guy is selling a Montana 3100RL pretty much loaded with the ALL the options which includes the leveling system.

His truck is a 2011 Chevy 2500 Duramax which he will sell as a package. By looking at the picture however I don't see any squatting rear end. But I go through the numbers and wonder if this is too much fifth wheel for this truck?
Air Bags do wonders for leveling, but don't do a thing for GAWR! He may be close.
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Old 08-14-2012, 02:44 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by datedd View Post
Check this out; this guy is selling a Montana 3100RL pretty much loaded with the ALL the options which includes the leveling system.

His truck is a 2011 Chevy 2500 Duramax which he will sell as a package. By looking at the picture however I don't see any squatting rear end. But I go through the numbers and wonder if this is too much fifth wheel for this truck?
What is the location and price of this trailer???
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Old 08-14-2012, 03:54 PM   #4
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Here's the URL:

http://www.rvt.com/rvdetail5020238.htm
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Old 08-15-2012, 06:20 AM   #5
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At looking at the numbers I would say no he isn't maxed out. That truck has a max pay load of 3037 lbs & 10,000 lbs GVWR, trailer hitch is 2235, and the max 5th wheel trailer capacity for that truck is 17,400 lbs, trailer GVWR 14,235 lbs. In my opinion he might be at the top of the numbers for payload on the truck but having an older version of this truck I have had mine past the payload numbers and haven't had any problems.
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Old 08-15-2012, 08:30 AM   #6
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At looking at the numbers I would say no he isn't maxed out. That truck has a max pay load of 3037 lbs & 10,000 lbs GVWR, trailer hitch is 2235, and the max 5th wheel trailer capacity for that truck is 17,400 lbs, trailer GVWR 14,235 lbs. In my opinion he might be at the top of the numbers for payload on the truck but having an older version of this truck I have had mine past the payload numbers and haven't had any problems.
So it's safe to say that 3/4 ton HD diesels can safely tow 14000# GVW fifth wheels and this combination can be used as a benchmark.
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Old 08-15-2012, 09:00 AM   #7
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So it's safe to say that 3/4 ton HD diesels can safely tow 14000# GVW fifth wheels and this combination can be used as a benchmark.
What the person you quoted said, "having an older version of this truck I have had mine past the payload numbers and haven't had any problems." does not categorically mean that it's always safe in every situation. Being past hte "payload numbers" means adding cargo/pin weight, not necessarily trailer weight. Additionally, he refers to his trailer GVW of 14,235, not his actual trailer weight if it were put on a scale at any given moment.

Some older 3/4 ton trucks were not rated higher than 12,000 lbs trailer weight and some were (are currently) rated significantly higher. All the ratings have to come into play, GVW, GCWR, GAWR, GAWF, payload, tire ratings, pin weight, hitch weight, passenger/cargo weight.

As an example, if you hitch a trailer to a 3/4 ton truck and load the truck and trailer to the maximum, as soon as you put 3 passengers in the cab, you'll be over your GVW. Is that unsafe? Possibly not unless you have an accident and an attorney or your insurance company start "snooping" (Please note, the same example applies to half ton, one ton and bigger trucks as well)

Each truck/trailer combination is unique and may differ greatly from another similar rig due to variations in loading, use, personal preference, family size, and a vast number of other variables.

Do the research on your specific selections and, if possible, if you have any doubts, put that rig on the scale BEFORE you sign on the dotted line.

ALSO:

Please note that a 14,000 lb fifth wheel and a 14,000 lb toy hauler (also a fifth wheel) will have SIGNIFICANTLY different pin weights, so a 3/4 ton truck that works for one 14,000 lb trailer may be vastly overloaded with a different model 14,000 lb fifth wheel.
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Old 08-15-2012, 09:42 AM   #8
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Thanks JRTJH! I was refering to the set up this guy has for sale. I have a 2004.5 Chevy 2500 HD with the D-Max and a 5 speed Allison with a payload capacity of around 2200 lbs and my GVWR is 9,200 lbs and my 5th wheel towing capacity is only 13,800 lbs. So a trailer this size would not work for my truck. Would my truck pull it.... SURE, but not safely. And when I said I had been over my GVWR before it was just local driving and it was patio blocks (around 3000 lbs) that I had in the bed of the truck and I was sitting about 800 lbs over my GVWR. The truck had no problem with the weight but when it comes to traveling on a highway at 60 mph or higher and for long distances I always make sure I'm within the rating of my truck.

I hope this clears up my post. And like JRTJH said each truck and trailer combo is going to be different so you can't use his combo as a standard.
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Old 08-15-2012, 10:11 AM   #9
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Read jetjh's post carefuly. check the actual truck you are buying read the door lable for the actual weights and then look at the load range on the tires. if the lable calls for load range E and it has D's on it then the weight you can carry goes down. also if you can weigh it be for you buy it and all is good than you know you are ok but if you are able to make sure the brakes are good in quality and thickness. remember you have to stop it once you get it going! good luck and enjoy
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Old 08-15-2012, 12:36 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by JRTJH View Post
What the person you quoted said, "having an older version of this truck I have had mine past the payload numbers and haven't had any problems." does not categorically mean that it's always safe in every situation. Being past hte "payload numbers" means adding cargo/pin weight, not necessarily trailer weight. Additionally, he refers to his trailer GVW of 14,235, not his actual trailer weight if it were put on a scale at any given moment.

Some older 3/4 ton trucks were not rated higher than 12,000 lbs trailer weight and some were (are currently) rated significantly higher. All the ratings have to come into play, GVW, GCWR, GAWR, GAWF, payload, tire ratings, pin weight, hitch weight, passenger/cargo weight.

As an example, if you hitch a trailer to a 3/4 ton truck and load the truck and trailer to the maximum, as soon as you put 3 passengers in the cab, you'll be over your GVW. Is that unsafe? Possibly not unless you have an accident and an attorney or your insurance company start "snooping" (Please note, the same example applies to half ton, one ton and bigger trucks as well)

Each truck/trailer combination is unique and may differ greatly from another similar rig due to variations in loading, use, personal preference, family size, and a vast number of other variables.

Do the research on your specific selections and, if possible, if you have any doubts, put that rig on the scale BEFORE you sign on the dotted line.

ALSO:

Please note that a 14,000 lb fifth wheel and a 14,000 lb toy hauler (also a fifth wheel) will have SIGNIFICANTLY different pin weights, so a 3/4 ton truck that works for one 14,000 lb trailer may be vastly overloaded with a different model 14,000 lb fifth wheel.
OK, so this combination CANNOT be used as a benchmark then since conditions are unique and it all depends on how one loads the vehicle(s) even though the numbers quoted by campingcpl looked within tolerance for this setup. That was my original question in the post and I had a feeling that this scenario was questionable. But perhaps it works for this individual if he did his homework..

Obviously the best way to determine where one is with all of this is to, as you had mentioned; take both to a scale and weight them before buying, provided the dealer permits it.
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Old 08-15-2012, 01:34 PM   #11
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OK, so this combination CANNOT be used as a benchmark then since conditions are unique and it all depends on how one loads the vehicle(s) even though the numbers quoted by campingcpl looked within tolerance for this setup. That was my original question in the post and I had a feeling that this scenario was questionable. But perhaps it works for this individual if he did his homework..

Obviously the best way to determine where one is with all of this is to, as you had mentioned; take both to a scale and weight them before buying, provided the dealer permits it.
If the dealer won't let you confirm the weights, I'd be looking somewhere else. From what I saw on the original ad link you posted, it's not a "to die for" deal anyway. Pretty much right down the middle NADA pricing, so unless the rig is in exceptionally nice condition, it's pretty much an average price for an average rig.
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Old 08-15-2012, 03:25 PM   #12
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If the dealer won't let you confirm the weights, I'd be looking somewhere else. From what I saw on the original ad link you posted, it's not a "to die for" deal anyway. Pretty much right down the middle NADA pricing, so unless the rig is in exceptionally nice condition, it's pretty much an average price for an average rig.
Well JRTJH, if they want to make the sale, I would think compliance with the customer's wishes would be no problem. I think the challenge may be when one orders a coach with what they want, it may be difficult to weight it before taking it off the lot.

I guess one would have to be creative.
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Old 08-16-2012, 07:49 AM   #13
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Here's a little info: Our SOB has a spec weight of 12700, actual weight leaving the factory was 13700 and that was still minus our two 40 Lb Propane tanks, satellite dish, and combo wash/dryer putting our dry weight over 14K. So as you can see spec weights are not worth the ink it took to print them. The same holds true for pin weight specs. Our previous Montana had a spec pin of 1970 actual weight for travel was 2600 Lbs. So don't believe those phoney numbers even if you don't ever put anything into the rig.
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Old 08-16-2012, 08:24 AM   #14
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Well JRTJH, if they want to make the sale, I would think compliance with the customer's wishes would be no problem. I think the challenge may be when one orders a coach with what they want, it may be difficult to weight it before taking it off the lot.

I guess one would have to be creative.
Most dealers or at least most communities have a good enough selection of RV's that you probably can find one similar to what you want to order with essentially the same equipment (or close) and use the weight/pin weight on that as a guide. That'll get you much MUCH closer than the spec sheet in nearly every situation.

When the dealer is "up front and honest" with the customer, there usually is no problem, however when a salesman is blowing smoke, pushing to move an RV off the lot and needing to turn the investment badly, they will often say anything to convince a potential customer that he'll be "OK" towing with the stated vehicle. AND.... when that same salesman starts finding ways to exclude any customer confirmation (let's go weigh it) I'd say it would be time to start moving on to a different company to do business with.

Case in point: Right now there's a sister thread to this one where the OP has a Ford Edge with a MAX tow rating of 3500 lbs (properly equipped) and he's looking at a RV with a "spec" weight of 3400 lbs dry. Add propane, battery, RV camping supplies and we all know that's going to be a 4500 lb trailer, yet the salesman is "sooooooo reassuring" that it'll be just fine, even though the numbers crunch to about a 29% overload.

If the salesman's lips are moving and you hear the words, "just trust me" or "it'll be just fine"... Time to RUN LIKE HELL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 08-16-2012, 09:27 AM   #15
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Here's a little info: Our SOB has a spec weight of 12700, actual weight leaving the factory was 13700 and that was still minus our two 40 Lb Propane tanks, satellite dish, and combo wash/dryer putting our dry weight over 14K. So as you can see spec weights are not worth the ink it took to print them. The same holds true for pin weight specs. Our previous Montana had a spec pin of 1970 actual weight for travel was 2600 Lbs. So don't believe those phoney numbers even if you don't ever put anything into the rig.
That's amazing. It's almost seems worthwhile to invest some $$ in a portable scale. Then when they see you walking on the lot holding one, they have nothing on ya! Lol.
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Old 08-16-2012, 09:29 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by JRTJH View Post
Most dealers or at least most communities have a good enough selection of RV's that you probably can find one similar to what you want to order with essentially the same equipment (or close) and use the weight/pin weight on that as a guide. That'll get you much MUCH closer than the spec sheet in nearly every situation.

When the dealer is "up front and honest" with the customer, there usually is no problem, however when a salesman is blowing smoke, pushing to move an RV off the lot and needing to turn the investment badly, they will often say anything to convince a potential customer that he'll be "OK" towing with the stated vehicle. AND.... when that same salesman starts finding ways to exclude any customer confirmation (let's go weigh it) I'd say it would be time to start moving on to a different company to do business with.

Case in point: Right now there's a sister thread to this one where the OP has a Ford Edge with a MAX tow rating of 3500 lbs (properly equipped) and he's looking at a RV with a "spec" weight of 3400 lbs dry. Add propane, battery, RV camping supplies and we all know that's going to be a 4500 lb trailer, yet the salesman is "sooooooo reassuring" that it'll be just fine, even though the numbers crunch to about a 29% overload.

If the salesman's lips are moving and you hear the words, "just trust me" or "it'll be just fine"... Time to RUN LIKE HELL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
LOL!!!! You folks are alright in my book!
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Old 08-16-2012, 09:54 AM   #17
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Buyer beware still holds true. the op with fordedge is a great example of a dealer looking for a sale. my little volvo wagon can tow 3500lbs with trailer brakes. i have towed 2100 lbs sailboat with it that was ok but if i put 4k on omg i would be dead! glade u listened to john some people get mad at us when the sad but true comes out! good luck and tow safe!!
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