Hitch Weight Definition

[ColoFatherOf3]

I am in the very early stages of figuring out what Toy Hauler to purchase and how to spec out the Ford F350 TV I intend to purchase.

I'm looking at a Carbon 358 and I see three numbers that are important:

Shipping Weight: 12,965
Carrying Capacity: 4035
Hitch: 3175

Is the definition of that hitch weight what to expect when the RV is empty (24% of 12,965) or is it the hitch weight to expect with the RV is at capacity (18% of 12965+4035=17000)?

I'm trying to figure out how much cargo capacity will be taken up by a fully loaded RV. The Polaris Rzr I intend to haul is 1900 pounds all by itself. I can see getting to max capacity of the RV pretty quickly. I don't think I'll equip it with a generator, given such little room left in carrying capacity after loading up the RZR.

I think I can stay within the max capacity of the RV (17000), but I'd like to make sure I fully understand how much hitch weight such a load would put on my TV. Is it more than 3175?

I think a SWR F350 has a cargo capacity of 4000 - 4400 pounds, so I need to know what this number really is.

I'd prefer not to purchase a dually if I don't have to.

thanks!

[NH_Bulldog]

The formula I use is 23% of GVWR to calculate pin weight. That comes out to 3,910 lbs. for the unit you are looking at. Then add another 23% of pin weight to allow for 5th wheel hitch, driver, passenger(s), accessories, gear, fuel, etc. that puts you into dually territory at a cargo capacity requirement approaching 5,000 lbs.

[RollaMo]

Advertised hitch weights are always "Dry" (As shipped) weights.

Your real world hitch weight once you get loaded up and ready to travel will be quite a bit higher than any advertised hitch weight.

[wiredgeorge]

The advertised "hitch weight" is a marketing fantasy as is the "towing capacity" stated by truck manufacturers. That is a heavy 17K camper and a diesel dually is highly recommended. A SRW F350 will not have near enough payload for a 17K lb camper.

[ColoFatherOf3]

Thanks for the responses. I suspect many folks talk themselves into staying under these weights with this exact setup, but I'd rather walk on the safe side.

Looks like I'll be looking into a dually!

[Max23]

Good choice. That's a lot of weight.

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by ColoFatherOf3

Thanks for the responses. I suspect many folks talk themselves into staying under these weights with this exact setup, but I'd rather walk on the safe side.

Looks like I'll be looking into a dually!

Depends on what you carry in the truck, if you have an in bed tool box or auxiliary fuel tank, way easy to eat up that 4,000# to 4,400# payload! We lost 1,400# of payload to us, hitch and stuff. We looked at some Rams with 4,200# payload and our 32’ 5th wheel with a 2,800# pin would have eaten all of our payload, hence the DRW in our signature.

[Brantlyj]

Just as an FYI, my F350 crew cab long box with the gas engine has a 4,200 cargo capacity. If you got a diesel it would be roughly 800 lbs less.

[dutchmensport]

As stated in so many words, you need to take the max weight possible your camper can be (fully loaded with everything, including the contents of the tow vehicle) and use that as it's base line. Yes, you are in the 17,000 pound range, and you are wise to search out a dually. You might even be in 450 territory on that one!

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by Brantlyj

Just as an FYI, my F350 crew cab long box with the gas engine has a 4,200 cargo capacity. If you got a diesel it would be roughly 800 lbs less.

What is the GVWR of your F350? We have looked at several Ram 3500 SRW diesels with payloads in the 4,200# range, GVWR 12,300#.

[CWtheMan]

The trailer manufacturer’s tongue weight is a very misunderstood figure. It is calculated by the trailer builder and then combined with the trailers certified GAWR weight (s) for vehicle certification. Once the trailer is transferred to a consumer the tongue weight becomes the consumer’s responsibility to maintain to ensure the vehicle’s GVWR is not exceeded.

The following information comes from the FMVSS standard 571.120 paragraph; S10.2 - On RV trailers, the sum of the GAWRs of all axles on the vehicle plus the vehicle manufacturer's recommended tongue weight must not be less than the GVWR.

[wiredgeorge]

Originally Posted by dutchmensport

As stated in so many words, you need to take the max weight possible your camper can be (fully loaded with everything, including the contents of the tow vehicle) and use that as it's base line. Yes, you are in the 17,000 pound range, and you are wise to search out a dually. You might even be in 450 territory on that one!

My dim memory tells me that an F350 dually will have a higher payload capacity than and F450 if otherwise equipped similarly.

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by dutchmensport

As stated in so many words, you need to take the max weight possible your camper can be (fully loaded with everything, including the contents of the tow vehicle) and use that as it's base line. Yes, you are in the 17,000 pound range, and you are wise to search out a dually. You might even be in 450 territory on that one!

Originally Posted by wiredgeorge

My dim memory tells me that an F350 dually will have a higher payload capacity than and F450 if otherwise equipped similarly.

Another Ford catch 22, they hold the F450 with pickup bed to 14,000# GVWR, which means that for the same trim level the heaver F450 will list a lower payload, this is to help the owner with insurance and registration. If you get the same truck in cab Chassis, the GVWR goes up several thousand pounds, as does the payload.

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by CWtheMan

The trailer manufacturer’s tongue weight is a very misunderstood figure. It is calculated by the trailer builder and then combined with the trailers certified GAWR weight (s) for vehicle certification. Once the trailer is transferred to a consumer the tongue weight becomes the consumer’s responsibility to maintain to ensure the vehicle’s GVWR is not exceeded.

The following information comes from the FMVSS standard 571.120 paragraph; S10.2 - On RV trailers, the sum of the GAWRs of all axles on the vehicle plus the vehicle manufacturer's recommended tongue weight must not be less than the GVWR.

I so much dislike the use of that word in that standard! It isn't the Recommended hitch weight, it is the dry weight of the trailer. The only trailers that one can easily control the hitch weight is a flatbed. RVs need to be within a percentage of total GVW to operate safely, too light of hitch weight can result in handling issues.

[CWtheMan]

The trailer manufacturer cannot set a useful tongue weight for any trailer, thus the wording is recommended tongue weight. Again, it may not be a useable weight but it is part of the vehicle certification process.

The standard for vehicle certification is very clear and short. If readers read-in anything other than GVWR they are in error. (total certified GAWR weights, when added to the recommended tongue weight MUST be less than GVWR.

Dry weight is not correctly identified in your comment. GVWR is the only weight certifiable. Dry weight normally refers to the trailers UVW. However, dry weight explanations conflict with FMVSS standard. FMVSS 571.120 paragraph S10.4.2 states that the weight of full propane tanks must be included in the RV's UVW and the weight of on-board potable water must be treated as cargo.

[Ddaddyo]

If you purchase a Ton Truck with single Rear Wheels you'll be Sorry!

[Pete54401]

ROUGH rule of thumb for a 5th wheel is 25% of your loaded trailer weight will go onto the truck, assuming it's properly loaded (think water level). You must factor this plus the hitch weight plus passengers and cargo in the truck. This will be your total payload number. Look at the published payload capacity for your truck as this will get you reasonably in the ballpark. Look at the curb weight of your optioned truck, add your passenger and cargo weight, hitch weight, and weight of your loaded trailer and compare this total to the GCWR and you should be lower than this GCWR number. The trick is not to exceed either the payload capacity or the GCWR... often easier said than done. When you're close to the limits its best to move up to more truck. Ford publishes a great Towing Guide. Here is the link... https://www.ford.com/cmslibs/content...wing-Guide.pdf

[ChangingViews]

With a Toy Hauler, you will have LESS hitch weight when you load the RZR vs when the trailer is empty. The actual hitch weight is dynamic with loading so it all depends on how much weight you load in front of vs behind the trailer axles. Think of it as a see-saw. The percentages mentioned in this thread are good for a non toy hauler but, with the RZR and 30-40 gal of fuel behind the axles, you will have to be more cognizant of getting ENOUGH hitch weight to make the trailer pull safely.

I have CAT scale weights of my truck empty, truck travel-ready, my rig empty (right off the lot), and loaded just like we travel. I am towing a 17,000 GVWR TH with an F350 SWR. Ironically, when my rig is empty, it is within all limits EXCEPT I am over RAWR. When it is loaded, I am within ALL limits and it tows great. I do have a generator and I have a front bedroom which is HEAVY with a full closet and also under-bed storage packed. Would I recommend a dually? Yes - if you don’t want to use your truck off-road like we do, plus you will have more safety margin, and if you ever move to a similar size non toy hauler, you will need it.