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Old 10-03-2014, 01:13 PM   #1
Hfiles
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Roof pulling back from front

2014 Keystone Carbon Toy Hauler, the roof is separated from the front seam; RV Repair indicates 5 ft needs to be re glued. Over a week and Keystone still has not approved the repair, I guess their waiting for Christmas. I guess its time to send another letter to the CEO, it appears that’s the only way to get things done in a timely manner.
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Old 10-03-2014, 02:34 PM   #2
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Refer to thread located here: http://www.keystonerv.org/forums/showthread.php?t=16949

Hfiles,
Welcome back to the forum after your extended absence. We're happy you returned.

According to your previous posts:
"April 28, 2014

Keystone RV Company

After filing several complaints with various entities; Letter to CEO for Keystone, BBB and NHTSA, I received a phone call from Mr. Steven Homes, Keystone Warranty Manager. After discussing the various issues and their customer service, Mr. Holmes assured me he would investigate and make sure it doesn’t happen to me or other customers in the future. Mr. Home’s apologized for the service I received and if there are future issues to call him direct.
Based on our conversation I accept his/Keystone’s apologize and will monitor future warranty issues.

All items have been approved by Keystone, RV Dealer notified and guess what the mattress will be here on Friday.

In the future, I highly recommended starting at the TOP and let things roll down hill. I want to thank all of you for your infomation and help."


I would have to ask you a couple of questions.

First: You indicated in your last post (you've only made three posts) that the "remedy for your future problems" is to call Steven Homes. Have you followed your advice?

Second: What was his response?

There's really no need to complain about the dealership, your last action stated that you were going "straight to the top" with any further problems would be handled by Mr. Homes. How is he helping you?
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Old 10-20-2014, 09:24 AM   #3
bpyle311
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Roof repair

I also own a keystone carbon and the same problem happened with mine except the gap introduced air under the roof liner and tore the front third of my roof, this was after owning it for 12 days! Needless to say it ruined the roof and the repaired roof is a disaster..where I'm going with this is that the dealer looked at the dycor sealant and it was pealing up from every vent, the front roof cap and everywhere it was used. So I believe keystone had a bad lot of glue used that was a man. Defect. Check all of your seals as you don't want to be in my shoes. Also I was told your roof warranty is only good if you resell the dycor every year-also ,misleading. GOOD LUCK!
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Old 10-21-2014, 08:05 AM   #4
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I have also an issue with the dycor sealant cracking along the top of the nose cap and roof. Around the antenna, it has peeled up and separated from the roof. I have a few other areas doing the same thing. Is it worth fighting Keystone over this? It's not difficult to get up there and repair myself.
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Old 10-21-2014, 10:41 AM   #5
JRTJH
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Originally Posted by CarbonFun View Post
I have also an issue with the dycor sealant cracking along the top of the nose cap and roof. Around the antenna, it has peeled up and separated from the roof. I have a few other areas doing the same thing. Is it worth fighting Keystone over this? It's not difficult to get up there and repair myself.
Here's quotes from the owner's manual:

Page 8: EXCLUSIONS TO WARRANTY • Routine maintenance including, without limitation, brake squeak/lock-up/adjustment, caulking, changing fuses or light bulbs, combustion systems, latches, locks, maintaining the air conditioning and heating systems, re-caulking and waxing of the body of the recreational vehicle, tightening screws, and winterization;

Page 10: Owner Responsibility It is the responsibility of the owner to maintain the recreational vehicle as described in the Care and Maintenance section of the Owner’s Manual including taking whatever preventative measures necessary to maintain the exterior sealants of the unit and to prevent foreseeable secondary moisture or water damage to the unit from rain, plumbing leaks, condensation and other natural accumulation of water in the unit. Owners should not leave a unit unattended while attached to an internal or external water source which could lead to a ‘flooding’ condition. Examples of secondary damage include, but are not limited to, stained upholstery, carpeting or drapes, mold formation and growth, furniture cabinetry or floor deterioration, etc. Mold is a natural growth given certain environmental conditions and is not covered by the terms of this Limited Warranty.

Page 14: • Check sealants regularly and reseal when necessary to avoid water leaks. Proper preventive maintenance to the RV and its accessories, as described both in this manual and in accompanying literature, will provide the best protection for your unit.

Page 75: Roof Seams and/or Joints Roof sealants will deteriorate which can lead to leaks. Deterioration can be accelerated in heavy sun, changes in climates (expansion/contraction with aggressive temperature change), and cold climates. Once the unit leaves our manufacturing facilities, we can no longer maintain the sealants, that becomes your responsibility. We hope you take this seriously because it can help prevent a very frustrating situation that can be very expensive to remedy (damage from water leaks). Inspect the roof at least every 90 days, paying close attention to all seams and/or joints and attachments where sealant is used. Look for cracks, shrinkage and/or gaps/voids in the sealants. These must be carefully cleaned and resealed. It is necessary to use the same sealant as originally installed if touching up cracks, shrinkage and gaps/ voids. There is no way to know if 2 different brands of sealant will seal to each other. DO NOT use any type of silicone product on the rubber roof material. If there any doubt in your mind in performing this maintenance, please contract with your local dealer to have it done. Please refer to the manufacturer instructions supplied with the unit for care and operation and/or www.dicor.com.

As you can see, there are a number of "outs" that Keystone can take to deny any responsibility for leaks or damaged/deteriorated sealant on the roof. During the first 90 days, Keystone will do most adjustments, resealing, etc. After that 90 days, they usually will not even authorize slide adjustments. All of that falls under "regular maintenance" and is the owner's responsibility.

Your dealership "may" reseal your roof, but I really doubt that it would be "free" or "covered under warranty" Most dealership labor rates are anywhere from $75 to $150 per hour and resealing a roof is probably a 2 hour "flat rate" task.

Realistically, even if your dealer is only 10 miles away, the time, effort, frustration of hitching, hauling it to them, leaving it for "whatever length of time" and then rehitching, hauling it home and reparking it would, for most of us, be far more "expensive" than simply buying an $8 tube of DICOR and doing it on a Saturday afternoon.

It's up to you if you choose to request warranty resealing, but don't be surprised if it's denied by the dealer and Keystone on any unit that's 6 months old or older.

Good Luck,
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Old 10-21-2014, 07:33 PM   #6
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Thanks for the info JRTJH...
All the damage occurred during the second part of our 6 week trip around the county totaling about 8500 towing miles. Seems so strange that a sealant like dicor would peel up off the rubber roof in a solid sheet. Although it would be great to have Keystone warranty the repair, I did read your response and it's obvious Keystone does not really stand behind their product or its construction. That is very unsatisfying.
Our Carbon is winterized and resting nicely inside our shop at this time. I will grab a few tubes of dicor and spend an afternoon on the roof.
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Old 10-21-2014, 07:40 PM   #7
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That's what I did also. I've had it back to the dealership a couple of times, for the remote control problems, otherwise, it seems easier, cheaper and less stressful to just do it myself.

If you do buy DICOR self leveling sealant and do it yourself, get a stiff bristle nylon brush, clean and loosen the dirt, remove any loose or damaged old sealant, wipe it down with alcohol and let it dry, then "goop" the DICOR on to overlap both sides of the existing sealant so it adheres to the old sealant and to the roof membrane on the outside and the roof vent, antenna base, etc on the other edge of the new sealant.

I do mine about every 3 or 4 months, seems most people here won't go past 6 months max before they climb on the roof to "enjoy an afternoon in the sun"

Good Luck,
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Old 11-04-2014, 10:09 AM   #8
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I just went through a major roof repair this past summer on my Fuzion TH. I had a tear in the rubber roof around the front A/C unit which I thought was a manufacturing fault when they placed the A/C unit in the roof. After seeing another TH pass me on the highway I clued on to another possibility. The front 1/4 of his entire roof was balooned up to create a bubble on his roof about 2 feet high. I wondered if this was happening to me so I placed a camera on the roof and went for a ride.

You can see the roof bubble push the Rubber up onto anything that is in the way, (A/C unit, antenna, Skylights, etc). I then thought I was getting air in under the roof, so when I took the video I taped every light, seam, joint, etc, that I thought might let air in. What I found out was that the glue used to hold the superflex rubber roof was not strong enough to hold the material to the roof substructure. The air traveling over the front section of the RV creates a vacuum and actually sucks the roof upwards (see Bernoulli's theory). The Glue used at manufacturing wasn't strong enough to adhere the rubber roof to the osb roof substructure.
If this is what's happening to your roof causing failure of the lap sealant seams, resealing won't help. They need to reglue your rubber roof back to the substructure and then reseal all seams with lap sealant.
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Old 09-04-2015, 10:51 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bpyle311 View Post
I also own a keystone carbon and the same problem happened with mine except the gap introduced air under the roof liner and tore the front third of my roof, this was after owning it for 12 days! Needless to say it ruined the roof and the repaired roof is a disaster..where I'm going with this is that the dealer looked at the dycor sealant and it was pealing up from every vent, the front roof cap and everywhere it was used. So I believe keystone had a bad lot of glue used that was a man. Defect. Check all of your seals as you don't want to be in my shoes. Also I was told your roof warranty is only good if you resell the dycor every year-also ,misleading. GOOD LUCK!
Add my 2014 Carbon 297 to the roof delamination list. At 3 months old and on our first big trip when we got home we found the whole front seam pulled out and the roof delaminated back 3 inches. When I got it back from being repaired at the dealer the whole front seam was all puckered up and wrinkled about 1 inch tall and on the way home the roof started to delaminate again. I called Alpha the manufacture of the TPO roof and I was told it was a reaction to Dycor seam sealer and Alpha seam sealer HAS to be used on a TPO roof. I gave that information to the dealer during the second repair and this time the seam laid nice and flat. Now 7 months later after my big trip the whole roof is pillowed up and full of air from the front seam all the way back to the first vent and antenna. The only good news was this time the front seam held. I called Keystone and they told me to call Alpha. Alpha told me the reason for the delamination is not enough glue applied when the roof was put on new or the wrong glue was used, and the wrong seam sealer was used around all my vents causing the TPO to delaminate. I was told by Alpha the only proper repair is to replace the TPO roof and the plywood underlayment because you cannot put new glue on old glue, it will not hold. Now my problem is no one wants to step up and fix it. Any ideas?
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Old 09-04-2015, 11:47 AM   #10
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Eeeks.. Sure is a lot of non-cooperation and not-my-fault there. Like JRTJH, I'm up on the roof every 3-4 months. At least once a year, I'm checking the old dicor, pulling anything suspect off, and resealing.

Regardless, I can't come up with a valid reason why a factory seal job shouldn't last 1 year.


And I didn't know that Dicor can't be used on these roofs, so thanks for that bit of information.


The major fear is that roof coming loose in front, causing a balloon, and having it traverse the roof. I've seen that on a few RVs and it's got necessitate an expensive repair.

I've thought about using eternabond tape and the front of the cap, over the Dicor (Alpha) - anyone tried that?
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Old 09-04-2015, 01:22 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by dcg9381 View Post
Eeeks.. Sure is a lot of non-cooperation and not-my-fault there. Like JRTJH, I'm up on the roof every 3-4 months. At least once a year, I'm checking the old dicor, pulling anything suspect off, and resealing.

Regardless, I can't come up with a valid reason why a factory seal job shouldn't last 1 year.


And I didn't know that Dicor can't be used on these roofs, so thanks for that bit of information.


The major fear is that roof coming loose in front, causing a balloon, and having it traverse the roof. I've seen that on a few RVs and it's got necessitate an expensive repair.

I've thought about using eternabond tape and the front of the cap, over the Dicor (Alpha) - anyone tried that?
I wouldn't recommend applying eternabond over the Dicor. Here's my reasoning: Eternabond is a "permanent repair" and Dicor is a "resealable repair". The Eternabond is designed to last longer than the Dicor when applied to the roof. So, if you have a "temporary seal" and apply a "permanent seal" over it, when the "temp stuff" peels off, so will the "permanent stuff".....

If you're going to apply Eternabond, then I'd suggest taking the Dicor completely off the area to be sealed, clean the area well and apply the Eternabond to a "virgin surface" without anything under it that might degrade the adhesion. Then, if you want, use Dicor over the Eternabond to seal the edges....

Keep in mind that the reason why you see "ballooning" of RV roofs on the road is because air is being forced between the roof and the TPO or EPDM membrane. That means the adhesive is not holding the membrane to the roof structure. Once the adhesive fails, anything you apply to the front seam is pretty much a "moot point" as the roofing membrane isn't affected by the front seal after the membrane is lifted away and starts ballooning.
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Old 09-10-2015, 04:40 AM   #12
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Same issue here. When at highway speeds, a vacuum is created at front of roof. TPO was not glued correctly causing a large bubble. In my case it did not pull loose from front edge, but rather the bubble made contact with air conditioner edge. Cut TPO on both sides. Contacted dealer and Keystone. Reply: OUT OF WARRANTY PERIOD. I have temporary fix with Eternabond while awaiting legal counsel.
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Old 09-10-2015, 08:41 AM   #13
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I have seen videos of people stripping their roofs down to the plywood and the using a Rhino lining spray as the roof coating. They say it is lifetime.
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Old 10-05-2015, 10:31 AM   #14
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In my case it did not pull loose from front edge, but rather the bubble made contact with air conditioner edge. Cut TPO on both sides. Contacted dealer and Keystone. Reply: OUT OF WARRANTY PERIOD. I have temporary fix with Eternabond while awaiting legal counsel.
FYI - this is exactly what's happening on my 2015. I'm "in" warranty, so we'll see what Keystone says.

If anyone has correspondance with Alpha where they indicate that the roof shouldn't be re-glued over prior poor adhesion, please PM me.

I have photos and video if that helps anyone else out.
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