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Old 12-06-2014, 09:53 AM   #21
Tim Cline
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I will wait until this has played out. They called me yesterday and left a quick voicemail. Parts won't be in until at least NEXT Wednesday. However all their "Techs" are off until next Friday so they will put me back on the schedule for then. Jim I've decided just to be patient, keep track of all the dates, save the emails and voice messages. When the Camper is done I intend to request an extension of warranty and reimbursement of payments made while the RV sat on their lot unusable from Keystone. it wil do no good at this point to engage in a "pissing contest" with them only to have them do a marginal repair as payback and claim I was unreasonable.
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Old 12-07-2014, 05:01 AM   #22
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As far as you have come with this problem I don't see where you have any choice at this point. I'm sure more flies are caught with honey but always keep that swatter handy.....
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Old 12-15-2014, 05:20 PM   #23
Tim Cline
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Oh looky, they sent me the title for my trade in to sign. Think I'll hang on to it for awhile. Maybe drop it off when I get my NEW RV back, which may be April the way this is going.
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Old 12-18-2014, 04:47 PM   #24
Tim Cline
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Wow, got a call Monday putting slide back in, got a call today, oops wrong parts slide still does not work. Tearing it back out. Hopefully after the holidays we'll have good news for you. Told them I'll be sitting on the title for the trade in. They did not seem to happy with that. 5 more days will make 2 months they have had it. Not to mention the 2 weeks they had it to prep for delivery. Crazy.
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Old 12-18-2014, 08:25 PM   #25
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Hold your trade as ransom.... Just tell them: "When I get MY trailer, you get YOURS" LOL
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Old 01-11-2015, 04:47 PM   #26
Tim Cline
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Got a call last monday they were pulling the slide again. Then nothing. I can't even remember what the dang RV even looks like. I refuse to call them back and ask since I only get aggravated and the only thing I want to hear is its done and we extended your warranty. At some point this has to end. After almost 3 months I think it might be time to call this dealers home office.
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Old 01-15-2015, 08:36 AM   #27
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Unbelievable, sorry your having this experience. I started reading this from the beginning and it read like a soap opera. Hope all works out for you, thinking of buying a keystone 5th wheel, still thinking now.
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Old 01-17-2015, 01:48 PM   #28
Tim Cline
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Well, guess what ladies and gents. Went to pick up the RV today, 2 hours to the dealer, get 20 minutes away and the phone rings. Its the dealer asking if I was actually coming, yes says I. Oh not good says the service manager, seems we tried to finally winterize your camper since we have had it inside since October and the water pump is blowing fuses, uh oh. So we head on in there axchanged a few words and I procede to check out the slides. Screws missing cables STILL misadjusted, rain gutters over slide still diverting water into the awning rail, never cleaned up their mess wire and insulation bits stuck all in carpet. They ahuled me into an office and closed the door. Reminded me that its Keystones warranty and I reminded them it was THEIR reputation they should worry about and not keystones. Then he feels it necessary to tell me there is no lemon law on RV's and if lawyers get involved they are out. I never mentioned lawyers or lemon law. And then had the gall to ask me what I thought my share should be to replace the RV if necessary! WHAT? MY SHARE? I pulled my truck around and removed all my belongings from the camper we had left in it from our 1 night of use back in October. The sales manager is looking worried and said he wil talk to Keystone Monday and see what they are willing to do.
I then slipped the Title to the old camper which is still on the lot back into my pocket told them good luck and left. Total 5 hours round trip and time at Dealer wasted.
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Old 01-17-2015, 04:26 PM   #29
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Wow! It was suggested earlier that this may be a dealership issue, and by this turn of events it definitely is in my opinion. Also sounds as if their repair folks don't know much about repairs, cleanup or professionalism. After their inability to do anything right I can't believe they called you into an office and had that conversation. If you held your cool you did better than I would have been able to do. I don't know how much experience you've had with rv dealers but most aren't like that.

You're going to have to do something about the contract you signed and those legal implications. If the dealer asked what you thought your share of a new unit would be I would tell him exactly what my original contract states. If not, you may have to deal with the bank and I'm not sure how that will come out. From the way it sounds I doubt this dealer has much clout with Keystone; they probably know him for what he is. By the way, who is this dealer and where are they located? I want to make sure I never make the mistake of stopping in there.
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Old 01-17-2015, 05:07 PM   #30
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Wow! It was suggested earlier that this may be a dealership issue, and by this turn of events it definitely is in my opinion.

By the way, who is this dealer and where are they located? I want to make sure I never make the mistake of stopping in there.
sourdough -
Sometimes, a buyer who is in the midst of trying to work out a solution to an issue he may with the dealership may be reluctant to divulge their name and location. During these "negotiations" the buyer is probably trying to remain non-confrontational and to "keep his cool" while at the same time, feeling a sense of anger and frustration.

If, in the midst of trying to work out a solution with the dealer, the buyer goes on line to a forum and badmouths the dealer, divulges his name and tells everyone to stay away, it could come back to haunt him. I can see where the customer may not want to jeopardize the relationship between him and dealer - no matter how flimsy that may be.

Trying to work with an uncooperative and incompetent dealer is not an easy task and if the dealer were to find out that the customer has "spread the word" on an internet RV forum then that could be the end of any possible compromise or solution for the customer.

In the end and after every avenue has been exhausted by the customer to "make it work" and is getting nowhere, then that might be a better time to "name names". Until that happens then asking the customer to identify the dealer may not be in his best interests.
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Old 01-17-2015, 07:00 PM   #31
Tim Cline
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Thank you Festus. I will only add this dealer actually has 3+ locations. My salesman did ask if I was open to sending the rv back to Goshen for repair. I suggested they call their other locations and bring in a more experienced tech or have the slide manufacturer send a rep to properly adjust the slides and at the same time teach their guys how to do it correctly. Or send someone in from Keystone. As a field service tech in the CNC industry I've been on both sides of this dance.
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Old 01-17-2015, 08:06 PM   #32
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we had problems with our electric awning . it was still under warranty and neither Keystone or Lippert would send a new motor . my wife got really mad and called the dealership and asked to speak to the owner . we had a trip planned with no operable awning . he said I will take care of it . at the time , my truck was in the shop for a few days and I had no way to take it to the dealer about 10 minutes from our house . he came down ,pulled the unit back to the dealership , pulled an electric motor off of another unit and towed the unit back to our home all set for our trip . that is an example of a great dealer in my book . they will be getting our business as we need repairs etc. good luck with your unit.
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Old 01-18-2015, 08:50 AM   #33
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we had problems with our electric awning . it was still under warranty and neither Keystone or Lippert would send a new motor . my wife got really mad and called the dealership and asked to speak to the owner . we had a trip planned with no operable awning . he said I will take care of it . at the time , my truck was in the shop for a few days and I had no way to take it to the dealer about 10 minutes from our house . he came down ,pulled the unit back to the dealership , pulled an electric motor off of another unit and towed the unit back to our home all set for our trip . that is an example of a great dealer in my book . they will be getting our business as we need repairs etc. good luck with your unit.
You're so correct when you say that this is an example of a "good dealer". This is the kind of support and service most of us expect when we have a problem with our purchase and it's under warranty. You have every right to expect your dealership to help you and even to "go the distance" in doing so.

Now, as has been said so many times, if you had bought from a dealership 500 miles away, what kind of support would you "reasonably expect" from the dealership that's 10 minutes away?

I think that is something we should think about when trying to cut corners and think we're saving a couple thousand dollars.... By the time you pay for fuel, time, tow vehicle operating expenses, motels, meals and the other things required to buy from a "distant dealer", and then to add the "cost of this kind of support", what is the real savings by not buying local? There's a certain amount of "cost" associated with supporting a dealer like this and often it's an investment that pays dividends for years to come.

I'm sure you'll be happy with your RV and with the dealership that supports you by demonstrating that they care about you after the sale !!!!
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Old 01-18-2015, 10:20 AM   #34
Tim Cline
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I bought my last Keystone locally. I was unhappy with their service after the sale that left me paying thousands for repairs that should have been warranty. Therefore I took my business elsewhere and checked the BBB rating of this dealer. It was not an matter of going elsewhere to save thousands but rather they had the unit I wanted, only negative BBB hits were from people who in my opinion were unreasonable in expecting warranty repairs on item they had actually modified themselves and it didn't work out. With todays social media, dealers should know that customer complaints are no longer just available locally. in the midwest they have fewer rv dealers to cover a much larger area. So your options may be limited.
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Old 01-18-2015, 02:32 PM   #35
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Festus/Tim

I understand not naming names if the negotiations are still going on and you have hopes of an acceptable resolution. It sounded to me like that corner had been turned. If not, I understand not divulging their name, but, if it all breaks down I would sure like to know where NOT to take my RV for repairs when on the road when it is obvious from Tim's posts that these guys are lacking in that department. Even if they finally are able to resolve this to Tim's satisfaction the last thing I want to do when traveling across the country is to go in for a repair and then have my trailer held hostage for 3 months or more while they try to figure out which end is up.
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Old 01-18-2015, 06:04 PM   #36
Tim Cline
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Oh let there be no doubt that if this is not resolved you'll have the name here, Facebook wherever i can post it. I can tell you though that I have to give the dealer a little love. One of the electrical issues was tied to the A/C. The 12 volt electrical signal to the roof was shorted. Keystone told them not to run a new wire just tie into another 12vdc supply somewhere else in the ceiling. They refused and removed the wall and ceiling, ran a new wire all the way to the inverter and reassembled everything like it should be. A proper repair. Unfortunately I think during the process they probably pinched the wire going to the water pump. But I do believe they will fix it correctly also. No good deed goes unpunished I guess. I checked the wall and ceiling and will say I could not tell it had been removed. Better than new.
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Old 01-19-2015, 11:06 AM   #37
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Sounds like they are trying. Maybe they just have someone who is inept in the slide dept. I hate it that you are having such a terrible time with a new trailer - it must have been one of those built on a Monday or Friday as people say I wish you luck in getting it completed to your satisfaction so you can get out camping. After all this is done and they are ready to hand it over to you I think that I would insist on going thru the complete PDI list again.
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Old 02-07-2015, 11:30 AM   #38
Tim Cline
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Well fellow RVers after 3.5 months the Sprinter is finally home. A few issues to be resolved but I have decided I will correct them. One of the landing legs slipped about a half inch in its bracket, i'll just lower it onto my kingpin stand and correct it. I will also be insulating the front storage area, sealing the huge gaps around the propane tank compartment that a small child could probably fit through let alone mice. While I was rolling around on the ground I noticed most of the underbelly screws already corroded and the middle sags from no fasteners at all. So I figure I'll drop the whole thing add insulation as I've read here its a joke and replace all the exposed fasteners with stainless. Will all pay off in the long run and not worth bickering with the dealer or keystone over. Hopefully no more electrical or slide issues.
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Old 02-07-2015, 05:20 PM   #39
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I agree with notanlines, the dealership should have "just fixed it", but I think we need to understand the dynamics of what is likely to be going on here.

First, the trailer was manufactured by Keystone and transported to the dealership.

Second, the dealership did an "acceptance inspection" upon delivery.

Third, Keystone paid the dealership a significant amount of money to do a PDI on the trailer and to correct any "deficiencies" noted during the inspection. This PDI payment by Keystone can be upwards of $1000, depending on the cost of the RV and the items that are found to need repair/adjustment.

Fourth, the trailer was sold to the customer, then brought back for something that was found wrong.

Fifth, when the dealership contacted Keystone with the problem, requesting authorization to repair it, the question then becomes:

Was the dealership already paid to do the slide adjustment as a part of that initial PDI? If so, then should Keystone pay the dealer to do it a second time? Or should Keystone disapprove additional payment and insist the dealer repair the slide since they have already been paid to repair it as a part of the PDI that was done on Keystone's initial payment???

This forum is filled with comments from owners about dealerships that didn't do an adequate PDI when they bought their RV. We've heard about hot water heaters that leaked, air conditioners that weren't connected to the thermostat, water pumps that wouldn't run, furnaces that had no propane connection, refrigerators that weren't plugged in, and the list is endless.

There is a "fine line" between some dealership service departments which "paperwork the PDI" and some other dealerships that actually do the job that Keystone has already paid them to do. So, without knowing the situation here, it may be a "dealer's battle with Keystone" not because the company is refusing to pay for the repair, but because Keystone is saying, "We've already paid you to do that work and won't pay again." Either way, it's the dealership that needs to "step up" and keep the customer satisfied.

The comments on this forum may be well intentioned, but without knowing all the facts, some posters may be "dogging" Keystone when it's the dealership trying to "double dip" for repair money. We just don't know enough to make a judgment on what is really happening in this (or in many other) situations.
I'm sorry but you are 100% incorrect on payment of PDI. Keystone pays a dealer NOTHING to do the PDI. No RV manufacturer does. I have been the GM/owner of a Keystone dealership for 15 years. The PDI and what is included is 100% paid for by the dealer. Keystone did NOT pay for the repair.
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Old 02-07-2015, 08:39 PM   #40
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I'm sorry but you are 100% incorrect on payment of PDI. Keystone pays a dealer NOTHING to do the PDI. No RV manufacturer does. I have been the GM/owner of a Keystone dealership for 15 years. The PDI and what is included is 100% paid for by the dealer. Keystone did NOT pay for the repair.


All of the defects identified during the PDI are billed as warranty work by the dealer. The factory pays for all of that work. Dealerships are expected to do a complete inspection/servicing of the RV prior to delivery. Dealerships bill all repair/adjustment line items from "cleaning and adjusting the furnace" to "adjusting the slide" to the manufacturer as a part of that inspection, so yes, the factory pays for the preparation (other than janitorial services) in the form of warranty reimbursements. No dealership is expected to repair factory defects "free gratis". Every dealership that I've been associated with has billed the factory for each and every line item that is found defective on every incoming RV. The "rub" comes when the factory pays for a specific repair during that incoming inspection and then, 6 or 7 months later, when the item fails (or when it is discovered by the customer and had not been properly repaired) and the dealership attempts to bill for the repair a second time. That "double dipping" has caused a lot of dealerships to come under close scrutiny by Keystone and those dealerships are the ones who have problems getting Keystone to approve repairs without significant documentation/pictures, etc. Although on some items the factory requires pictures and documentation (for future warranty reimbursement from vendors), if the repair has been paid by Keystone once, they are not easily swayed to pay for the same repair a second time.

All of those repair services are funded through the factory warranty program, either as a "Keystone responsibility" or as a "component manufacturer responsibility" and the factory warrant department administers the warranty for all components during the first year.


You are correct in that Keystone does not have a separate line item reimbursement for the PDI. It is a "built in reimbursement expectation" in the wholesale/MSRP calculations. I believe we all understand that the customer ultimately pays 100% of all services, otherwise there would be no Keystone or RV dealership.
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