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Old 06-20-2013, 03:25 PM   #1
5mary6
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1/2 ton towable

SO I remember looking at TT when I had my GMC 1500 and not wanting to go too heavy. So after getting my 2500HD I was looking at the 1/2 towable before deciding to go with the bigger 5er. So my question is if the 1/2 towable is heavier than most TT, how do you get away with pulling it with a 1/2 ton truck. Is it the weight distribution is different?
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Old 06-20-2013, 04:28 PM   #2
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The general answer is, a TT is supported by a hitch at the very back end of the tow vehicle, whereas a 5er's hitch is mounted more favorably leverage wise, just forward of the truck's rear axle.

So the same truck can usually carry a heavier trailer in a 5er configuration.

That said, pay heed to the truck's *GCWR* rating---the maximum combined weight of the truck plus the trailer, which is independent of TT/5er. Most 1/2 ton trucks cannot pull most "1/2 ton" 5ers unless very lightly loaded.
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Old 06-20-2013, 07:39 PM   #3
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More trailer weight also produces more hitch weight and the produces more bounce or teeter totter effect in the truck with a pull trailer. But when you put that increased weight over the back axle or just slightly if front of the rear axle you get weight balanced in the truck, not off the back end of the truck. There's a reason all semi's use a fifth wheel. So you can pull more weight safely.
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Old 06-20-2013, 10:29 PM   #4
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Check out the keystone web or brochure, they call the model line 1/2 ton series but, they do not say anywhere they are towable with a 1/2 ton truck. They claim they are build lighter. Lighter than what?. The largest travel trailer GVWR is 9750lbs and 5th wheel is 11340lbs. Doesn't sound like their making those for 1/2 tons trucks. The information they print says to check with the tow vehicles manufactuer for suitable tow vehicles for keystone products.
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Old 06-21-2013, 11:23 AM   #5
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1/2 ton

A lot of the 1/2 ton towable weigh in a 7440 lbs. Lighter than the TT. I think as long as the payload will support it, then it is likely. Same as the heavier 5ers and the payloads of the bigger trucks. so many are exceeding thier payloads with the heavier 5ers too. Guess it can work.
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Old 06-21-2013, 12:04 PM   #6
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The smaller trailers in the 1/2 ton series can be towed with 1/2 ton trucks but, again it is the name of a line of trailers. They infer that they are towable by 1/2 ton trucks but, do not say so. I met a site menber from here while camping, he has same trailer as I and tows it with a Toyota, he has proper tires and hitch, says it does fine towing. The trailer is about 7000lbs. I do not know if he feels the same truck could tow a 10,000 lb trailer and do it at freeways safety.
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Old 06-21-2013, 02:27 PM   #7
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I have a 333MKS, 36 foot 5er and it only weights dry 10k..I'd never try towing it with a 1/2 ton nor do I think it would ever be labled a 1/2 towable..The ones labled 1/2 ton towable are about 7400 lbs.
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Old 06-21-2013, 06:50 PM   #8
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The Cougar Half Ton Series fifth wheels pretty much all have a GVW of 10330. As the trailer gets longer (and heavier) the payload goes down.

When looking at the F150 "max tow package" the rating is there (11,300) to tow an RV with a GVW of 10330, but when you look at empty pin weight, it will pretty much "max out" the payload capacity of most F150's. With careful loading and diligent towing, I suppose it's possible to tow most of the "half ton" series with a half ton, but as an owner of a half ton, I felt that my fifth wheel with a weight of 6200 lbs and a pin weight of 940 was about all I could safely tow and maintain any of the payload for my DW and the dog. I went so far as to buy all plastic blocks, chocks, etc to help reduce weight. Yes, we were under the max, and all the ratings were within limits. We met every weight restriction and I felt comfortable towing the rig. We never had any issues.

I suppose that had that tree not cancelled our last camping trip, I'd still be planning to tow with the same truck. However, opportunity has a way of knocking at the door and now seems like a perfect time to get a larger fifth wheel. Could I "push it" and tow with my F150? Probably, but we're looking at the Cougar X Lite 27RKS, it's empty weight is what our Springdale weighed ready for camping with full water tanks and the empty pin weight is 150 lbs more than the Springdale's loaded pin. When fully loaded the Cougar will have a pin weight upwards of 1800 lbs. I'm just not ready to tackle that with my F150.

So, a new F250 sits in the driveway and the new fifth wheel is on order. We get the Springdale back next week and we're looking at maybe 2 more short trips before the new one arrives. I'll have the opportunity to tow that trailer with both the F150 and the F250. I'm eager to see if there's any significant difference in handling, towability and performance between the two trucks.

I would think (my opinion) that the lightest of the Cougar X Lite fifth wheels, the 25RKS is the only one of the Cougar X Lite series I'd feel comfortable towing with my previous F 150.
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Old 06-21-2013, 11:07 PM   #9
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JRTJH, That would be a great test, tow the trailer with each vehicle, maybe over same route and write up the good, the bad of each truck as a tow vehicle with the same trailer. We could all learn from a honest, hands on test. I do not fault others when they say it tows good, my vehicle gets the job done etc. When they are only towing the trailer with the only vehicle they have it's hard to say how much better or worse a larger or smaller vehicle can be.
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Old 06-21-2013, 11:49 PM   #10
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Ha Ha 1/2 ton

I have a 276 5er that says 1/2 Ton Series on the side of it ..I have a 2008 made by Cougar AKA Keystone My Truck is a 2009 Dodge CTD 2500 HD 4x4 short bed I drive about 62 mph with the RV on the tires are not to go over 65 so I do keep the speed down. I have had many 5ers and 2 bumper pulls all My many trucks have been Oil burners with the long box but 2 have had short boxes. Long 8foot box are the best I think If I ever get a new one again I will have a long bed they handle the trailers better. Make wise I like the Dodge line because of the Cummins they are a great motor for the long hall .Ford is a fix and repair .GM has a nice soft ride to soft for Me all I know about them never had one had a Ford and sent it down the road a year after buying the dam thing wow glad its gone it was a pig on fuel also gut less for towing but it was pretty to look at...ha ha lol
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Old 06-22-2013, 03:18 AM   #11
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Unless math has changed a bunch since 1957 when I learned that a ton was 2000 pounds.....

Despite the badge on the side a truck with a payload of 1500 plus pounds is in no way a 1/2 ton truck....
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Old 06-22-2013, 06:19 AM   #12
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Javi, Howdy;

Unless you are talking "Long ton";
http://www.onlineconversion.com/faq_09.htm
or Metric ton;
http://www.wisegeek.org/what-is-a-metric-ton.htm

But then, Keystone does place non specific titles on the sides
of their (our) RV's, ie. Polar Package, Arctic Package etc. .
Ask questions, check the numbers, make up your own mind.

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Old 06-22-2013, 06:47 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hankaye View Post
Javi, Howdy;

Unless you are talking "Long ton";
http://www.onlineconversion.com/faq_09.htm
or Metric ton;
http://www.wisegeek.org/what-is-a-metric-ton.htm

But then, Keystone does place non specific titles on the sides
of their (our) RV's, ie. Polar Package, Arctic Package etc. .
Ask questions, check the numbers, make up your own mind.

hankaye
Yeah Hank... I do engineering for a living my point is that a pickup with a payload in excess of 1000 pounds is NOT a 1/2 ton pickup despite the badging... Manufacturers can market them anyway they want but the numbers don't lie... my so called 3/4 ton pickup with a plated payload of 2600 pound is NOT a 3/4 ton pickup...

While I welcome the increased carrying capacity and am not put off by the increased size of what they call a 3/4 ton... putting 1500 lbs in this pickup won't even squat it an inch.... My 1965 3/4 ton would be on the rubber bumpers with 1500 pound in the bed... and would fit inside the body skin of my '12 F-250 with room to spare...

I don't really understand their need to call a draft horse a Shetland pony...
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Old 06-22-2013, 08:08 AM   #14
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Javi,

The reason for calling a "draft horse" a "shetland pony" is money. If you look at most state registration and licensing fees you'll find a 10,000 pound GVW cutoff. Above that, the fees go up dramatically. That's why Ford (and others) have a 9,400 lb or a 9,600 lb GVW 3/4 ton truck. The 10,000 lb GVW, in many states, gets you a 100-600 dollar a year increase in license plate fees....

Also, once a "brand name" (like F150, etc) becomes popular, people tend to "shy away" from name changes.... Look at Ford's experience with the Taurus when they renamed it the Ford 500. After a year of DISMAL sales, they renamed the 500 a Taurus and sales boomed. Once again, the Taurus is a leading sales vehicle for Ford. If I were running the Ford marketing division, I would hesitate to change the names from F 150 and F 250. They are so easily recognizable to almost everyone who has any knowledge of light duty pickups.

It's strange how some things evolve. The "Half ton" and "Three quarter ton" are just a part of the evolution.... I'm not sure I'd want to buy a truck with a payload of 2700 lbs if it was called the F-1.375
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Old 06-22-2013, 11:09 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by JRTJH View Post
Javi,

The reason for calling a "draft horse" a "shetland pony" is money. If you look at most state registration and licensing fees you'll find a 10,000 pound GVW cutoff. Above that, the fees go up dramatically. That's why Ford (and others) have a 9,400 lb or a 9,600 lb GVW 3/4 ton truck. The 10,000 lb GVW, in many states, gets you a 100-600 dollar a year increase in license plate fees....

Also, once a "brand name" (like F150, etc) becomes popular, people tend to "shy away" from name changes.... Look at Ford's experience with the Taurus when they renamed it the Ford 500. After a year of DISMAL sales, they renamed the 500 a Taurus and sales boomed. Once again, the Taurus is a leading sales vehicle for Ford. If I were running the Ford marketing division, I would hesitate to change the names from F 150 and F 250. They are so easily recognizable to almost everyone who has any knowledge of light duty pickups.

It's strange how some things evolve. The "Half ton" and "Three quarter ton" are just a part of the evolution.... I'm not sure I'd want to buy a truck with a payload of 2700 lbs if it was called the F-1.375
Yeah a COKE is not always Coca Cola.... But it is still a cola... Floating rear axles and 7 or 8 bolt hubs are not 1/2 ton...
I have owned what was know as a heavy 1/2 which was a 5/8 ton and I've owned a 7/8 ton which was a 1 ton chassis without the dual rear wheels or what is sold today as a F350 or 3500 SRW all were titled at their payload weight range a 3/4 ton was titled as 1500 lbs... The 5/8 ton was titled as 1250 and the 7/8 ton was titled as 1750 lbs.... I notice that my 10K F-250 is titled as a "3/4 ton" this time not as 2600 lbs.... math really has changed
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Old 06-22-2013, 12:51 PM   #16
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As JRTJH pointed out, in the final analysis it's all about money. If a fridge, frying pan or Ford is smartly marketed, then money will be made. The F150, the frost-free Frigidaire and the Teflon-coated frying pan all have customer appeal and are instantly recognized and all make their manufacturers a ton of money. And to make sure we don't forget these products, put a sticker or decal on it --- "F150", "Polar Package", 'Half ton Towable".... the list is endless.
And what about the Math? Well, it really doesn't matter if a half ton truck doesn't weigh 1000 lbs or a 1 ton 2000 lbs. Consumers really don't want to be bothered with numbers. They are way too complicated and confusing. The weight is what we are told it is by the clever folks down in marketing. In the end, the math doesn't have to make sense or reflect facts.
For Javi and any other engineers or those who work with numbers, it must be very confusing. But then again, maybe that's the way it is supposed to be.
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Old 06-22-2013, 07:28 PM   #17
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weights

I think I'm getting pretty qualified with this subject now. I have a Cougar 26SAB that is 1/2 ton towable. I owned a 2009 Ford f 150 that I was using. I added another leaf spring to it to help with the suspension. I thought I was maxing it out with what I was carrying. When in Maine and going up some of the hills I knew I was maxing it out. It would pull alright but I had the feeling I was abusing it. time for a change. I bought a 2012 F250 6.7 Diesel I also put one extra leaf in it and two helpers. (didnt like the way it sat and my buddys kid had the helpers that he gave to me along with the hardware.) Since my son worked for the Ministry of Transport we weighed it up. These are the weights printed out from the scale. Truck on scale and pin 4300 Kg which equals 9460 lbs. Trailer wheels 3060 or 6732 lbs Gross weight 7360 or 16,192 lbs total weight. The truck is registered at 4490 kg. so I am under my weights by only 190 kg or 418 lbs. empty weight of truck is 3191 kgs. The trailer was loaded heavy with tools and full water tank. I was in the truck and it had a 1/2 tank of fuel I never carry water but I wanted a fully loaded trailer. This truck pulled it and stopped it with no problems. I dont think I will be replacing an engine, tranny or rear end on the 3/4 ton, not so sure about the 1/2 ton. My buddy has the exact same trailer with a 1/2 ton Ford same year as my old one. He put in an extra spring when the mechanic (heavy truck and bus) said the thing wasnt the safest he had seen. He wants to pull it to Alaska and is now having second thoughts, I did but not any more. I know my 3/4 ton weighs more than the 1/2 ton but Im sitting on the scales at 4300 kg. I know he will be over since the 1/2 tons are registered for 3000kg. Just my thoughts.
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Old 06-22-2013, 09:47 PM   #18
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I am the guy Ken is referring to and I did due diligence in making a purchasing of a tow vehicle a 1/2 ton rated Tundra with the 4.6V8 and the tow package. The trailer was purchased first, then I test drove and studied 1/2-ton pickups, I did the calculations in the Guide to Towing put out by Trailer Life. I checked with my trailer dealer as to the trucks ability to tow our trailer before purchase of the truck. Also in our family are to commercial members, one a contractor and one a river guide, they both are using Tundra's towing similar weights over both the coastal mountain range of Oregon and also over the Cascade Range into Bend Oregon. The Tundra makes for a wonderful day to day in town vehicle and when towing does a superb job. Also note the Tundra carries a label in the door jam, "Made in USA".

Towing the 10,000 Lb trailer would require the 5.7 engine, tow package and reg Cab 2wd, according to the 2013 "Guide to Towing" towing capacity in this configuration would be 10,400Lb. This would be the upper limit but the New Tundra is built to do this job, yes, I would tow that load on the freeway.
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Old 06-26-2013, 09:54 AM   #19
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Your F250 question

Do you have a programmer chip for your F250? I have n F250 6.4 L diesel and thinking of buying a programmer. If you do, what kind? Did it work? Do you like the performance? I have a new Passport 2929BH. I want to max my towing ability and efficiency. Thanks for any info.




Quote:
Originally Posted by JRTJH View Post
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Do you have a programmer chip for your F250? I have n F250 6.4 L diesel and thinking of buying a programmer. If you do, what kind? Did it work? Do you like the performance? I have a new Passport 2929BH. I want to max my towing ability and efficiency. Thanks for any info.


The Cougar Half Ton Series fifth wheels pretty much all have a GVW of 10330. As the trailer gets longer (and heavier) the payload goes down.

When looking at the F150 "max tow package" the rating is there (11,300) to tow an RV with a GVW of 10330, but when you look at empty pin weight, it will pretty much "max out" the payload capacity of most F150's. With careful loading and diligent towing, I suppose it's possible to tow most of the "half ton" series with a half ton, but as an owner of a half ton, I felt that my fifth wheel with a weight of 6200 lbs and a pin weight of 940 was about all I could safely tow and maintain any of the payload for my DW and the dog. I went so far as to buy all plastic blocks, chocks, etc to help reduce weight. Yes, we were under the max, and all the ratings were within limits. We met every weight restriction and I felt comfortable towing the rig. We never had any issues.

I suppose that had that tree not cancelled our last camping trip, I'd still be planning to tow with the same truck. However, oprtunity has a way of knocking at the door and now seems like a perfect time to get a larger fifth wheel. Could I "push it" and tow with my F150? Probably, but we're looking at the Cougar X Lite 27RKS, it's empty weight is what our Springdale weighed ready for camping with full water tanks and the empty pin weight is 150 lbs more than the Springdale's loaded pin. When fully loaded the Cougar will have a pin weight upwards of 1800 lbs. I'm just not ready to tackle that with my F150.

So, a new F250 sits in the driveway and the new fifth wheel is on order. We get the Springdale back next week and we're looking at maybe 2 more short trips before the new one arrives. I'll have the opportunity to tow that trailer with both the F150 and the F250. I'm eager to see if there's any significant difference in handling, towability and performance between the two trucks.

I would think (my opinion) that the lightest of the Cougar X Lite fifth wheels, the 25RKS is the only one of the Cougar X Lite series I'd feel comfortable towing with my previous F 150.
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Old 06-27-2013, 04:40 AM   #20
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For a ford sct is the programmer if choice

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