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Old 10-15-2014, 04:05 PM   #1
jshupe
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Angry QC/Axle issue on brand new Hideout

I picked up a new 2015 Hideout 260LHS this morning. When walking around the trailer, the first thing I noticed was that the rear axle was oddly articulated and I pointed it out to my sales rep. He assured me that it was just the Correct Track system, and after we went back and forth a couple times about it, I figured he would know better than I and went on with the walkthrough.

On the 82 mile drive home, at 70mph highway speeds, it felt like there was a good amount of rolling resistance that I didn't expect, and I only averaged about 8mpg. I expect 10-12, so 20+% less than this combined with the rolling resistance I didn't expect kept me pretty worried. I stopped a few times to check the trailer and the axle remained positioned as it was at the dealer, so I decided the rear shackle (on the passenger side of the TV) was probably too far back, and made a mental note to file a warranty claim.

When I got it home and into the driveway, I took some pictures and called Keystone to see if a dealer closer to me could handle the repair. They referred me to two dealers. I called the first one and they said that since they don't sell Hideouts, Keystone will not pay them for warranty work, and the other one I was referred to said there is a six week wait for warranty repairs. I finally called the original dealer back and ended up sending them the photo I took. They replied that they would call me back tomorrow about having it repaired. That photo is below, taken with blue masking tape strung across the wheel well to use as a reference point.



After a while, I decided to go back and take a look under the trailer again. I found that on the driver side of the TV, the rear leaf on the trailer is completely disconnected! I just sent the dealer the photo of the disconnected leaf and hope to hear back from them tomorrow, but at this point I'm livid about them not taking my concern seriously, and having to drive home with what I consider to be a fairly dangerous condition. What do you guys think? See the second photo below:

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Old 10-15-2014, 05:16 PM   #2
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sorry to hear this

Sorry to hear/see your leaf spring issue. IF it's just a disconnected bolt that should be an easy fix, either at the RV dealer or any nearby boat trailer facility. WHY it's disconnected may be the real issue. good luck.
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Old 10-15-2014, 05:39 PM   #3
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Do not drive/move it fix it where it sits!
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Old 10-15-2014, 05:54 PM   #4
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Since they screwed up they should send a road crew out to fix it, many rv dealer have mobile repair vans. As for mpg, I am sure the the situation had something to do with it but also the Hideout is a more flat front trailer I believe plus going 70 will lead to lower gas mileage. Be careful as most rv tires are only rated at 65 mph. Good luck
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Old 10-15-2014, 06:13 PM   #5
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OUCH! I agree, don't move it until its fixed, or at least a bolt installed to secure the spring pack. How and why it happened may never be truly figured out.

I realize it's late advise, but I have found salespeople only "know" how to sell stuff, from here on out, if you have any questions, bring them up with the service manager and make him/her do whatever it takes to make YOU comfortable. I hope this bad start doesn't sour your taste for the RV lifestyle.
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Old 10-15-2014, 06:46 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryWT View Post
Since they screwed up they should send a road crew out to fix it, many rv dealer have mobile repair vans. As for mpg, I am sure the the situation had something to do with it but also the Hideout is a more flat front trailer I believe plus going 70 will lead to lower gas mileage. Be careful as most rv tires are only rated at 65 mph. Good luck
Absolutely. I'm only expecting about 10mpg, based on what I've read from other RVers on various forums. As for the tires, I wasn't aware of that and assumed 70 would be the highest safe speed, but I'll tune it down to 65 in the future. Even with the issues, the trailer pulled pretty well, just not exactly as I expected. I definitely won't be moving it far, if at all, myself with the disconnected leaf.
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Old 10-15-2014, 06:49 PM   #7
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I hope this bad start doesn't sour your taste for the RV lifestyle.
Nah, I understand that these things happen. I'm just upset because I consider this a major safety issue, and it could have easily been avoided. My wife and I, and our brand new trailer and truck, could have been involved in a major accident because of this.
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Old 10-15-2014, 06:58 PM   #8
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Good! I totally understand and agree with you. I hope it get fixed in a timely fashion so you can go camping.
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Old 10-15-2014, 07:00 PM   #9
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Welcome to the forum and to Keystone camping. I'm sorry you wound up with a "situation" your first time at bat. Don't let it get you down and stay focused on the good times ahead.

One consideration you might keep close in mind is the tires on that axle. While they may be OK, there's also a possibility that your RV was towed from the factory in Indiana to Texas with the axle disconnected. There is a possibility that the tires on both ends of the axle may be damaged from running "off track". Have them inspected carefully. Others here are much more experienced than me on what to look for and what potential damage may have been done to the tires, so I'm sure someone will tune in and offer better advice.

Again, welcome to the forum and to Keystone.
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Old 10-15-2014, 09:07 PM   #10
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I am with GARYWT about having the dealer come and fix it before its moved. It is their problem and they need to get it fixed. You could help them by putting in a bolt and taking it back but, no way would I do that. What if you did and your fix comes apart and causes a crash or the dealer/keystone says your fix caused this or that damage and will not pay. I would also ask for at least a tire to replace that one. Good thing you looked it over and found the problem. Let us know what happens at the dealer.
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Old 10-16-2014, 10:08 AM   #11
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As has been posted, I wouldn't move the RV. The dealer probably has a mobile repair unit and if not they can pay for one to come make it safe so they can take it back and repair it properly. With a tire at that angle there is a lot of stress put on other components due to the tire trying to push at an angle. At 70mph that force is pretty great.

Someone noted that it may have been hauled from the factory that way and it very well may have been. I think you should have them come fix it good enough to get back to the dealer then completely realign that axle. It is probably, and appears to be, just a straight axle. I'm not sure how the tire sits at such an angle unless the axle itself has shifted. Putting the spring pack back in the hanger may not do you much good other than to help stabilize the axle.

The dealer needs to completely overhaul that axle. They should give you two new tires IMO. I would start with the service manager to see if he will do what he should. If not, escalate to the owner/GM. I would keep escalating until I hit the top of the food chain.

When I bought our new RV at the end of Feb. the sales folks (sales mgr) tried to really pull the wool over our eyes. I went to the GM and that went nowhere. I then communicated with Marcus Lemonis, the CEO of Good Sam/Camping World. He replied to me at 9pm in the evening and had his national VP of sales contact me that evening as well. I ended up with pricing for the new RV coming from the national VP (and it was a SUPER price) and we completely bypassed the sales folks at the dealership. They weren't, and aren't, very happy with me but they know they just got caught trying to be shady. Anyway, escalation does work.

Good luck with the repairs and be very careful with the rig until it is repaired properly.
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Old 10-16-2014, 10:46 AM   #12
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They are asking that I pull it to a service center 40 miles away. I'm calling the manufacturer now to see what they will do.
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Old 10-16-2014, 10:50 AM   #13
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From looking at the pic, it appears there was never a bolt tightened down there. My thought is that shackle never got a bolt during the build.
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Old 10-16-2014, 11:03 AM   #14
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jshupe

I would insist that THEY pull the trailer to the nearest service center. Once you hook up to it and take off you will have a hard time getting them to take ownership of the problem if something happens. I would just tell them it is too dangerous and that they have already placed you, your family, your TV and your RV in a life threatening position. If you were to hurt or kill someone else their insurance company, and their lawyers, aren't going to go after who sold the trailer; they will go after the person driving it.
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Old 10-16-2014, 11:09 AM   #15
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jshupe

I would insist that THEY pull the trailer to the nearest service center. Once you hook up to it and take off you will have a hard time getting them to take ownership of the problem if something happens. I would just tell them it is too dangerous and that they have already placed you, your family, your TV and your RV in a life threatening position. If you were to hurt or kill someone else their insurance company, and their lawyers, aren't going to go after who sold the trailer; they will go after the person driving it.
Quoting to agree. If something happens you will be at at fault and NEGLIGENT because you KNEW of the problem. Double whammy! This is a huge risk and safety issue. Make them come get it.
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Old 10-16-2014, 11:18 AM   #16
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X3... The very LAST thing you need now is the liability of hurting someone or yourself "doing them a favor"... Yes, for you to tow it somewhere for repair is taking the responsibility off their shoulders and putting it squarely on yours. I'd simply tell them that they need to come repair it in the driveway or they can assume the liability of towing it to any repair center they choose.

I'd also remind them that while towing it, if they do any further damage, they need to just order you a replacement trailer as you didn't buy a "second hand repaired RV" and you're not going to accept one.

I'd also remind the GM/sales manager that the only reason they are in this position is because of the "garbage" their salesman spewed about "It's supposed to look like that".

Don't let them reposition the problem from "theirs" to "yours".
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Old 10-16-2014, 11:37 AM   #17
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X4 and here is your fourth in agreement, if they want to move it let them assume the liability of moving it.
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Old 10-16-2014, 12:50 PM   #18
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Thanks everyone. The dealer is still wanting me to take it somewhere, but the manufacturer seems to agree with you.

The lady at Keystone is just having trouble finding a mobile tech to come fix it... I'll keep you posted.
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Old 10-16-2014, 01:02 PM   #19
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At this point the mobile tech they referred me to is out of business, and the nearest dealer that I'm supposed to tow it to has a one month wait to see it.

I have absolutely no recourse and this is leaving me with bitter feelings towards Keystone. Not only is there a huge quality control and safety issue here, they don't seem to be able to handle it in a timely manner within their dealer network. I'm located in Austin, so a fairly large metro area, and nobody is able to touch it in less than a month. And regardless of who works on it, the dealers are all insisting that I pull the trailer to them. I'm waiting on final say from Keystone themselves tomorrow (they leave at 4EST), but it doesn't sound like they can offer much help. I'm tempted to find a grade 8 chassis eye bolt and correct it myself because I can't wait four weeks. I've already lost one night's camp fees because I had to cancel a trip on short notice (this weekend), and have another trip coming up in two weeks that I will not miss.
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Old 10-16-2014, 02:07 PM   #20
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I know you want to go and use the RV. You are making a huge mistake - camp fees or not. I'm sure the life of you and your family, the destruction of the RV or TV is as little as a weeks camp fees. I'ts just money - lives are lives and the loss of the RV or TV would be far, far more than some camp fee. Plus, if you WERE to hurt someone else you could very easily be in jail for quite a long time (see note above about being negligent/knowingly driving defective equipment)....is the camp fee worth that?

I would be proactive. Find the mobile tech yourself. It's been a while but I used to spend quite a bit of time in Austin and even then there were quite a few places that handled RVs. I am positive there are mobile RV techs in Austin or within 25-30 miles. If you can't come up with something there call the largest RV campground you can find (KOA might be good) and ask them if they know who the mobile techs are. Find the tech, call Keystone and give them that information and tell them you are going to have them come get your RV and take it to the dealer. Call the dealer, tell them the RV is on its way and to put it at the front of the line. If needed, refresh their memory of them sending you on a death trip intentionally. You have taken pictures, show them to them (they illustrate the problem well) and tell them if you don't have the unit back by the end of next week the next time they see you it will be in court....for repairs, damages (lost camp fees/lost vacation/mental anguish/keyboard time on the forum....just kidding) and personal suits againsst the salesman and the GM for intentionally selling the RV with intent to do great bodily harm or cause death. Pile it up and drop it in their lap.

Do all of that and whatever else you can think of before you take off towing that trailer without it being repaired properly. You are playing poker with the dealership. They are bluffing and you have to call that bluff and put them in their place. If you haven't spoken to the GM you need to. I would be in his office in front of him.

If you do decide to put a grade 8 bolt in the hanger, please, check the alignment of the axles, status of the tires, hubs, lug bolts etc. I'm afraid you have a bigger problem than just slapping a bolt through the bracket and the spring eye. To align the axle you will need to be able to lift the trailer off the axles; do you have the equipment to do that?

Keystone, left to their own, is incredibly slow. I had a sliding door roller bust due to an improper installation on our maiden trip to FL earlier this year. When I arrived I called the Camping World dealership in Tallahassee, worked with the service manager and provided photos etc. It took Keystone NINE days to approve the repair, and then, after it was approved, it took them 17 days to send the rollers to the dealer for ME to install. You will have to stay on them and never "wait" on them. Give them timelines and then harrass them if need be. Always remember, your problem is of no importance to anyone but...you.

I wish you the best. Keystone has been good to us but a lot of that has been due to the service manager and the GM at our Camping World - and I had to be a complete you know what to get them on the same page.

If you do get out and go camping I'll be at Blanco State Park, a short distance from Austin, Oct. 19-25.

Danny
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