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Old 10-16-2014, 02:47 PM   #21
bobbecky
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You might call Keystone, insist on talking to the top guy that handles that division, don't back down. Tell them you don't care who fixes the problem, but if it isn't fixed in a timely manner, you will be contacting your state's attorney general and also will report this to the NHTSA, which should probably be reported anyway. Regardless of how this was delivered to the dealer, there is quite a checklist the dealer is supposed to complete for pre-delivery to customer, and I would think a visual inspection under the rig would be one of the things they should do. DO NOT TOW THIS ANYWHERE. If they want it moved, insist it be picked up with a low-boy trailer to transport it for repair if they can't get a mobile tech out. If you do stick a bolt in it, where do you place the bolt on the slot in the bracket? Is there other parts missing? Good luck.
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Old 10-16-2014, 03:06 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sourdough View Post
I know you want to go and use the RV. You are making a huge mistake - camp fees or not. I'm sure the life of you and your family, the destruction of the RV or TV is as little as a weeks camp fees. I'ts just money - lives are lives and the loss of the RV or TV would be far, far more than some camp fee. Plus, if you WERE to hurt someone else you could very easily be in jail for quite a long time (see note above about being negligent/knowingly driving defective equipment)....is the camp fee worth that?
I would not move it as-is. If anything, I would install a proper eye bolt where it is, and immediately take it to a dealership for further inspection and an alignment.
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Old 10-16-2014, 03:17 PM   #23
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Just me, but from this point forward I would be communicating with the dealer via email. If you decide to put a bolt in the spring eye I would email them with that and ask what bolt you should use. Get them to approve that and involved in the emails. Obviously keep all the emails. I would also get the service managers email address and cc him on all emails. You will now have at least a paper trial. Like others said...don't tow it like that.

I'll post up my refrigerator nightmare sometime....if it ever ends!
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Old 10-16-2014, 03:31 PM   #24
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I just sent off an email to the dealer. I'll follow up via phone in the morning. You are all probably right: I need to stop playing nice and put my foot down to get anything done.

Quote:
I have been patient about this so far, but I need to see results on this rather than being given the runaround. I don't care who fixes it, but this will be repaired by the end of next week or I will be contacting my attorney, the state attorney general, and the NHTSA about the issue.

REDACTED's negligence put my wife and I, as well as our tow vehicle and other tenants of the road, at substantial risk. Every conversation that I have had with you infers that you expect me to move the trailer in the condition it is in to a dealer for repairs. Even if the dealership were only a couple miles away, it would require me to take on legal responsibility for any incidents during transport, which I refuse to do. If it needs to be moved to a dealership, you will need to provision the transport, or have a mobile tech sent out instead.

So far I have incurred loss of use, loss of funds used for reservations at a camp site, and most importantly was subjected to a substantial risk due to negligence (at best), or the sell of a vehicle with intent to cause bodily harm or death (at worst). Again, please see to it that the issue is corrected immediately or I will be pursuing legal action as previously indicated.
==

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbecky View Post
If you do stick a bolt in it, where do you place the bolt on the slot in the bracket? Is there other parts missing? Good luck.
I've been trying to source the proper parts, but it doesn't look like I can even get them. The bolt is an odd size and I'm not finding the washers. According to my measurements:
  • Grade 5 3.75" long (3/8" shaft?) 13/16" head eye bolt
  • 11/16" outside 3/8" inside Locknut
  • 3" octagonal fender washers on each side, with offset holes for positioning

See the photo below for a proper configuration...



Edit: It looks like these are part of the Correct Track system: http://www.riecotitan.com/flyers/CorrectTrack_flyer.pdf
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Old 10-16-2014, 05:57 PM   #25
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jshupe

Conversations are meaningless when it comes down to brass tacks. When you are working on the paper trail make sure that you establish the facts, what they have said, what you are now dealing with and push them to make comments or commitments. Push them to acknowledge that they sent you on your way with a dangerous defect. You have to do it sort of on the stealth side but you can do it. Get everything you can in writing and then...sit down in front of the GM...maybe with the salesman. You will be the guy with the short straw if you don't play this in a canny, and aggressive way.

Your spring appears to be in front of the hanger/shackle. Do you think that compressing the spring to get the eye in the bracket will then straighten the axle or has something else happened.? Remember, with the force of that tire facing sideways on your trip home, or from the factory, it placed a tremendous amount of stress on the other components. In addition to the other things I've mentioned I would worry about damage to the spindle. I had one literally cut off the end of the axle once....not pretty, happy or anything else.

I'm hoping you find a way to get them on top of this...but it will all depend on you. Good luck.
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Old 10-16-2014, 06:42 PM   #26
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JShupe welcome to the forum. Listen to these wise road warriors and dont move the trailer. Personally when speaking with the dealership I would definitely be taping the conversation (Its legal to do that in Canada) If all else fails tow it on a flat bed back to the dealership and present them with the bill. Take as many photos of the trailer axle as possible from every angle. You kind of know they will try every angle to get out of this one. A witness taking some pics as well wouldn't hurt. I would be hiring the first lawyer I could get my hands on to sic on these guys. This dealership already owes you large. You certainly have more patience than me. No more Mr Nice guy go get em.
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Old 10-16-2014, 07:02 PM   #27
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Only MY opinion

Just my opinion, but I wouldn't have any communications that aren't written. IF IT WERE to end up in litigation, how do you prove the person on the other end of the phone is the person they say they are?

Any follow up IMO should be by USPS certified with proof of service. That way NO ONE can say, "I never got the email, must have been deleted by accident before I read it."
I understand you want this resolved quickly and properly, but I firmly believe in these situations being firm but patient can be your greatest asset.

KEYSTONE isn't the enemy yet as I see it, and I wouldn't go out of my way to make them one. Yeah you can hire an attorney and go after them, but how much money and time do you have? I bet Keystone could wait you out.
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Old 10-17-2014, 12:11 AM   #28
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Hi Sorry about Your troubles I had a spring problem 3 years back $750.00 from My pocket miles from home ...Bad news ...at the time was at the mercy of the repair Guy that was no mercy at all...You have a no choice fix,it has to be done at a dealer or spring shop the damage is done new axel is in need of replacement look at it its is bent the tires will be damaged also! a easy fix replace every thing with new and take no less a repair .You payed for a new unit get one and then have a eye for any bolts that come loose I think that was a people problem not doing there job not a bolt there to start with good luck Bushman
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Old 10-17-2014, 05:18 AM   #29
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HI ANDto the forum. I would be asking for two tires. to many miles way out of alignment and the side loads the tire has experianced!. ply seperation could happen and you should not have to worry about that as you travel. Has to make you wonder how good the pdi tech did his/her job at that dealership. that bolt did not fall out while it sat there! once that is fixed hope you enjoy camping and the great adventures to come.
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Old 10-17-2014, 07:12 AM   #30
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Talked to Keystone this morning: They said to have a mobile repair service fix it, and they'll reimburse me.

Talked to the dealer this morning: They said they are looking for a mobile service to come run a bolt through the axle, and then they want it towed to a dealer for inspection and alignment.

Edit, after writing the above: The owner of the dealer called me personally and is working on the above himself. He's also overnighting the correct/OEM parts for that bolt (FWIW, Lippert 1x344901, 1x122103, 2x290731).
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Old 10-17-2014, 08:36 AM   #31
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jshupe,

Great news, BUT!!!! Now that you've got their attention, don't let up. Continue to follow-up with him daily for status updates and any changes. Don't rely on him to "do it right" on his own, if that were the norm, you wouldn't be in this situation right now. He let you down, his dealership let you down and your salesman let you down.

Demand that they fix it correctly, which means complete inspection of the suspension, axles and tires. As many others have also stated, I would be very VERY cautious leaving the current tires on that axle. The other's "should" be OK, but those tires have been "misused" in their current application and really are suspect. I'd want new tires on that axle regardless of any excuses you'll get from the dealership.

Good luck with the repairs.
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Old 10-17-2014, 09:07 AM   #32
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Sounds like things are turning a little for the better. As JRTJH said, don't let up. Don't take their first offers to help and feel thankful. You bought a brand new trailer; putting a damaged one back together piecemeal is not what you paid for.

Don't let them put a bolt thru the spring and hanger and call it done. I would suggest that you have incurred substantial tire damage whether you can see it or not. You also need to have them pull both wheels on that axle and inspect the lug bolts, hub, spindle etc. I would be looking over their shoulder given their willingness to send you off on the highway with a hanger bolt missing from a spring.

I'm still concerned about the pic that shows the left tire pulled to the inside and you don't mention the right. How does the axle shift forward on the left and not have an impact on the right with a straight axle in between? I would also think you would probably have some sort of underbody damage from the spring eye bouncing around from the road surface, bumps etc. When the tire goes up and down that spring eye is doing a dance under your trailer. You have a LOT to look at and beware of. Unfortunately I'm afraid it is going to take a lot of effort on your part to make sure you don't keep paying for this for a long time. You might even want to grab someone knowledgeable in suspensions and have them look it over with you....especially if you are unfamiliar with their workings. Don't let things ride, don't overlook, don't take no for an answer.....if they are willing to get into this, which they really have to, you need to make sure they get it all because there won't be a 2nd shot in all likelihood.

Good luck and let us know.
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Old 10-17-2014, 09:19 AM   #33
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They're going to have me take it to a (different) dealer once the bolt has been replaced for a full inspection under warranty and an alignment. I'll be sure to push my concerns there.
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Old 10-17-2014, 10:54 AM   #34
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What kind of timeline are they giving you? Will you be able to make your next camping trip? Hopefully you were able to impress upon them the urgency of the repairs and they will accommodate you. Sounds like "they" (Keystone?) are sending you to a dealer other than the selling dealer. Hope that works out. Again, good luck.
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Old 10-17-2014, 11:02 AM   #35
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The parts will be here Monday or Tuesday. They want me to either put the bolt through the axle myself, or pay for a mobile service tech to do it, after which they will reimburse me the cost. I considered doing it myself, but will probably have a mobile service do it so there is a receipt and for it, and so that they can't come back and say that I did something wrong with the install (even though it is straight forward and I have the tools to perform it.) The mobile service company said they could come out on either Tuesday or Wednesday.

After that, they are going to have me take the RV to a dealer about 40 miles from here. That dealer is supposedly expecting this and should make it a priority. All of the closer dealers have one month+ wait times.
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Old 10-18-2014, 07:09 AM   #36
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Have the mobile tech do it. Again liability is on you if it comes out during transport to dealer.

How about asking Keystone and dealer for a special liability endorsement for you while you tow a clearly defective trAiler back to them to get fixed. Make sure to go slow and obey all speed limit laws etc.
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Old 10-18-2014, 05:33 PM   #37
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I would insist that they reimburse you for whatever camping fees you are going to lose.

It was Keystone and the dealers problem that caused you to miss the trip.

I would impress upon the owner the fact that his staff gave you a dangerous and potentially life threatening trailer to tow home after you wanted it looked at. This is a huge liability issue for them at this point and a PR nightmare.

You have pocket aces in this poker game. Play them to the max and get everything you want and don't put you or your family in danger over camping fees.
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Old 10-18-2014, 09:08 PM   #38
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Glad to hear it's in the process of being sorted. I agree with everyone else about not easing up on them in regards to towing nor during the repair process.

I don't know how many states have a similar law, but in Missouri, if you are involved in an accident where the officer finds that you are at fault, even if there are no other vehicles or property involved in the accident, it's a criminal offense and you have to go to court (or hire an attorney to deal with it for you). E.g. if you are driving too fast for conditions (such as going too fast for rain/snow/ice, even if under the speed limit), and run off the road, you can end up having to go to court.

Anyway, my point is that (aside from the liability issue) depending on the state, you could end up with criminal charges filed against you for knowingly towing a rig that isn't roadworthy.
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Old 11-17-2014, 08:09 PM   #39
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I know this is against several pieces of advice I received here, but I eventually just got fed up with them and dealt with it myself.

I put the bolt through the axle myself, torqued it to spec (85ft/lb), and checked the alignment using the chalk line method. I thoroughly looked over the tires and took it on a 50mi local drive and rechecked everything, including all suspension bolts, when I got back. Then I took it on a relatively uneventful 700mi trip. Rechecked everything several times, and when I arrived home. All great.

I had some sway issues, but they were due to my TV and WDH setup and not the issue described in this thread. I ended up adding Firestone Destination A/T LT275/65r18E tires, Air Lift 5000 Ultimate air bags, and a ProPride 3P hitch which all together result in an amazing towing experience.
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