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Old 02-09-2015, 04:58 PM   #41
mark1228
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Originally Posted by JRTJH View Post
All of the defects identified during the PDI are billed as warranty work by the dealer. The factory pays for all of that work. Dealerships are expected to do a complete inspection/servicing of the RV prior to delivery. Dealerships bill all repair/adjustment line items from "cleaning and adjusting the furnace" to "adjusting the slide" to the manufacturer as a part of that inspection, so yes, the factory pays for the preparation (other than janitorial services) in the form of warranty reimbursements. No dealership is expected to repair factory defects "free gratis". Every dealership that I've been associated with has billed the factory for each and every line item that is found defective on every incoming RV. The "rub" comes when the factory pays for a specific repair during that incoming inspection and then, 6 or 7 months later, when the item fails (or when it is discovered by the customer and had not been properly repaired) and the dealership attempts to bill for the repair a second time. That "double dipping" has caused a lot of dealerships to come under close scrutiny by Keystone and those dealerships are the ones who have problems getting Keystone to approve repairs without significant documentation/pictures, etc. Although on some items the factory requires pictures and documentation (for future warranty reimbursement from vendors), if the repair has been paid by Keystone once, they are not easily swayed to pay for the same repair a second time.

All of those repair services are funded through the factory warranty program, either as a "Keystone responsibility" or as a "component manufacturer responsibility" and the factory warrant department administers the warranty for all components during the first year.


You are correct in that Keystone does not have a separate line item reimbursement for the PDI. It is a "built in reimbursement expectation" in the wholesale/MSRP calculations. I believe we all understand that the customer ultimately pays 100% of all services, otherwise there would be no Keystone or RV dealership.
I'm sorry but that is simply not accurate. As an example, Keystone covers adjustments for ONLY day 1-90 of warranty coverage. Day 1 does not start until the day the customer picks it up. I have had this conversation with the very top of warranty management that if a unit shows up with a cabinet door that won't close right I have to fix it on my dime. That will not be reimbursed under warranty until the first 90 days of warranty. Adjustments during PDI are not covered by Keystone.

The PDI is NOT paid for by Keystone as you stated in the first post I replied to. Authorized warranty repair would be paid for, but the PDI is not.
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Old 02-10-2015, 03:19 PM   #42
sourdough
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mark - please clarify. What I hear you saying is that you, as a dealer, receive a new trailer delivered to say TX from IN. It rolls in, you put it on the line for show without looking it overthen wait for a customer to sign a contract. At that point you transfer ownership of the unit to the customer for him to find any/all defects that came from the factory or in transit. IF that customer wants to verify that everything is in working order, as it should be from the dealer, he has to pay you to check and see if it is. Is that what you're saying?

I've spoken to, worked with quite a few dealerships and all of them make sure a unit is working properly before it is transferred to a customer - no charge. My current trailer received a complete PDI before I took possession (a very thorough one at no charge) then I emailed them the PDI list from this forum and we spent another 3 hours going over the trailer. Not one word was said to me from the salesman, sales manager, GM/owner about how they didn't get paid for it or it was on their dime. Something is amiss or I'm missing something I think.
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Old 02-10-2015, 09:09 PM   #43
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mark - please clarify. What I hear you saying is that you, as a dealer, receive a new trailer delivered to say TX from IN. It rolls in, you put it on the line for show without looking it overthen wait for a customer to sign a contract. At that point you transfer ownership of the unit to the customer for him to find any/all defects that came from the factory or in transit. IF that customer wants to verify that everything is in working order, as it should be from the dealer, he has to pay you to check and see if it is. Is that what you're saying?

I've spoken to, worked with quite a few dealerships and all of them make sure a unit is working properly before it is transferred to a customer - no charge. My current trailer received a complete PDI before I took possession (a very thorough one at no charge) then I emailed them the PDI list from this forum and we spent another 3 hours going over the trailer. Not one word was said to me from the salesman, sales manager, GM/owner about how they didn't get paid for it or it was on their dime. Something is amiss or I'm missing something I think.
This thread getting a bit off track, but since you asked I will give you what insight I have:

UNIT is delivered to the dealership by a transportation company, At that time a delivery acceptance form (DAF) is filled out by dealership employee noting any damage that may have occurred during transport. If the unit has slides they are operated, and the exterior and interior is inspected for any physical damage, shore cords, keys, crank handles and such. Driver signs a copy and is on his/her way.

The unit is then assigned a stock number and placed on the sales line. When sold, a repair order is generated with details of the unit, added equipment and modifications if any to be made. A second repair order is generated for any "warranty found" items that arise during the PDI. It is during this time that any defects in materials and/or workmanship are noted, all appliances are tested, holding tanks are filled to assure no leaks and sensors working, and any defects have pictures taken and repairs submitted to the factory.

I believe your statement that you got a "free" PDI may be a bit misleading. If you didn't see it "itemized" in your sales contract, I assure you it was included in the sales price. Just like buying a new vehicle, where its called "dealer prep".

When you went to pick up your unit, you received a "walk through", not a PDI. I do the "walks" on all the units I PDI, that includes demonstrating how everything works, and if the customer notices a defect it is noted, dealt with if possible and again pictures and repair are submitted to the factory.

This is a quick general overview, and Mark may have more to add, but I hope this gives you an idea of how the "work flow" is.
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Old 02-11-2015, 06:06 PM   #44
mark1228
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This thread getting a bit off track, but since you asked I will give you what insight I have:

UNIT is delivered to the dealership by a transportation company, At that time a delivery acceptance form (DAF) is filled out by dealership employee noting any damage that may have occurred during transport. If the unit has slides they are operated, and the exterior and interior is inspected for any physical damage, shore cords, keys, crank handles and such. Driver signs a copy and is on his/her way.

The unit is then assigned a stock number and placed on the sales line. When sold, a repair order is generated with details of the unit, added equipment and modifications if any to be made. A second repair order is generated for any "warranty found" items that arise during the PDI. It is during this time that any defects in materials and/or workmanship are noted, all appliances are tested, holding tanks are filled to assure no leaks and sensors working, and any defects have pictures taken and repairs submitted to the factory.

I believe your statement that you got a "free" PDI may be a bit misleading. If you didn't see it "itemized" in your sales contract, I assure you it was included in the sales price. Just like buying a new vehicle, where its called "dealer prep".

When you went to pick up your unit, you received a "walk through", not a PDI. I do the "walks" on all the units I PDI, that includes demonstrating how everything works, and if the customer notices a defect it is noted, dealt with if possible and again pictures and repair are submitted to the factory.

This is a quick general overview, and Mark may have more to add, but I hope this gives you an idea of how the "work flow" is.
This is exactly correct. What I was originally trying to point out is that Keystone does not pay for the PDI as had been mentioned earlier. They will pay for warranty repairs however they do not pay for any needed adjustments PRIOR to the sale during the PDI. They will only pay for adjustments during first 90 days of warranty. I don't care for this policy. First of all, if the unit shows up and we have to make adjustments just to show it we should not have to pay for that but we do. 2nd, the warranty is one year and adjustments should be covered for the full one year in my opinion. I am in a Northern state and many of my customers don't even use their new RV in the first 90 days if they buy it in the Fall or Winter. Additionally we will not charge for adjustments during the 1 year warranty as a service to our customers. Hope this helps
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Old 02-11-2015, 06:17 PM   #45
mark1228
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mark - please clarify. What I hear you saying is that you, as a dealer, receive a new trailer delivered to say TX from IN. It rolls in, you put it on the line for show without looking it overthen wait for a customer to sign a contract. At that point you transfer ownership of the unit to the customer for him to find any/all defects that came from the factory or in transit. IF that customer wants to verify that everything is in working order, as it should be from the dealer, he has to pay you to check and see if it is. Is that what you're saying?

I've spoken to, worked with quite a few dealerships and all of them make sure a unit is working properly before it is transferred to a customer - no charge. My current trailer received a complete PDI before I took possession (a very thorough one at no charge) then I emailed them the PDI list from this forum and we spent another 3 hours going over the trailer. Not one word was said to me from the salesman, sales manager, GM/owner about how they didn't get paid for it or it was on their dime. Something is amiss or I'm missing something I think.
Sorry if I wasn't clear. We do a PDI prior to the customer taking delivery. What I was trying to get across is the Keystone does not pay for the PDI and they don't pay any adjustments during the pdi. If is significant defect is found during pdi, they will normally pay that repair unless it's cosmetic. If you find a stain in the carpet for example or a scratch in a cabinet door, nothing is paid there unless it was noted when the unit was received from the factory. The PDI and walk through is not reimbursed by Keystone but is a cost of the sale for the dealer. They didn't say anything to you because they covered that time in the cost of the trailer already but again, the main point I was trying to make was in response to another poster saying that Keystone paid for the PDI and they do not.
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Old 02-12-2015, 10:49 AM   #46
sourdough
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Thanks. That's what I thought. I did not see any line item for a PDI or trailer prep (I"m looking at the sales sheet) but I did assume that the prep was included in the overall price of the unit. That's fair to me although I think every item found prior to delivery to the customer (on a new unit) should be covered by the manufacturer......but that's the nature of the beast.
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Old 04-15-2015, 02:11 AM   #47
Tim Cline
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Never ends

Got the camper out and readied it for what would be our second attempt at camping since we bought it in October. The furnace lasted an hour. Did all the usual checks blower kicks on runs maybe 30 seconds then off. No attempt to light. Waiting for a call back or email reply from dealer since Saturday. NOBLE RV of Madelia. i finally called back last night after work around 5:15 pm. Nope nobody here from service. Can I bring it up on Saturday early to have someone take a look? Nope we don't have any techs here Saturday. I reminded them this rv already sat in there shop 4 months. Yep, we know. We'll leave a note for someone to call you back. Amazing. Again thats NOBLE RV. Tempted to just leave it go until after camping season and use electric and dump it off in the fall with what I'm sure will be a laundry list of issues. I'd just like to get 1 weekend out of the thing.
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Old 04-15-2015, 04:11 AM   #48
Roberttx
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Bought a 2015 Cougar in Corpus Christi Texas, took delivery Dec. 23. Had some of the same problems. Doors blowing in the wind, but the dealer fix them. Wanted to put TV in bedroom in the spot that was marked Put TV Here. Found that there was nothing but the thin skin. Called Keystone and was directed to go to my dealer and they would take care of it, that was two months ago, have given up and picking the rig up today. Will handle the problem myself. Don't know if the problem is with Keystone or my dealer. Maybe both. Good luck.
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