RV Industry Service concerns

[mark1228]

Originally Posted by sourdough

mark1228 - I think your comments pretty much sum up what I said in my comment above yours. They are also pretty much what the GM and sales manager tell me at my dealership. From my dealings with Keystone I know they can be trying to work with. I do think that a buyer should be able to expect better treatment from a selling dealer than just "someone". That's why I try to buy most of my things from a local dealer.

A buyer should expect great service from their selling dealer! I agree with the buying local thought as well. Thanks for being and RV'r!

[ggrant119]

I have been reading this topic and wanted to jump in on numerous occasions.. This is my $.02.....lol..

mark1228 - I appreciate you telling us what the dealership goes thru when dealing with warranty. I was in the John Deere Equipment business for many years. As an Operations Manager for the dealership there was a constant give and take with the manufacturer when it came to warranty work... That all came to a nasty crashing hault the day John Deere Corp. signed the contract with Home Depot to sell equipment in the big box stores. What the dealer is now required to do to get paid on warranty sounds like both company's where going from the same text book. Dealerships that have been in business for 30 - 40 - 50 years starting loosing money in the service department for first time. What was there answer...? Only do warranty work on units that where sold here!!. #1. Reason why.. setup and PDI!! #2. Reason why.. the shop labor rates from the manufacturer (what the dealer makes) was about 1/2 the posted shop rate. Nobody wants to work for half pay.

The over all out come of this mess (long of the short) Dealers all came togeter and formed a counsel that layed out to Deere how there warranty "Service plan" doesn't work!! They had there trained service professionals try and do repairs at what the "book time" said it should said take... not one repair could be made correctly by there time they where given. Today.. JD pays dealers POSTED shop rates!! parts are credited to dealer at MSRP. You would be hard pressed to have a dealer turn down warranty work now. And... if there's something that's in the Grey area .. there's working room for all!!!

Why did JD do this... people will never buy a #2 .. if they couldn't find someone to fix #1

I know the camping world is different from the equipment business. . Just thought it was funny how... with warranty it appears to be exactly the same!

[mark1228]

Originally Posted by ggrant119

I have been reading this topic and wanted to jump in on numerous occasions.. This is my $.02.....lol..

mark1228 - I appreciate you telling us what the dealership goes thru when dealing with warranty. I was in the John Deere Equipment business for many years. As an Operations Manager for the dealership there was a constant give and take with the manufacturer when it came to warranty work... That all came to a nasty crashing hault the day John Deere Corp. signed the contract with Home Depot to sell equipment in the big box stores. What the dealer is now required to do to get paid on warranty sounds like both company's where going from the same text book. Dealerships that have been in business for 30 - 40 - 50 years starting loosing money in the service department for first time. What was there answer...? Only do warranty work on units that where sold here!!. #1. Reason why.. setup and PDI!! #2. Reason why.. the shop labor rates from the manufacturer (what the dealer makes) was about 1/2 the posted shop rate. Nobody wants to work for half pay.

The over all out come of this mess (long of the short) Dealers all came togeter and formed a counsel that layed out to Deere how there warranty "Service plan" doesn't work!! They had there trained service professionals try and do repairs at what the "book time" said it should said take... not one repair could be made correctly by there time they where given. Today.. JD pays dealers POSTED shop rates!! parts are credited to dealer at MSRP. You would be hard pressed to have a dealer turn down warranty work now. And... if there's something that's in the Grey area .. there's working room for all!!!

Why did JD do this... people will never buy a #2 .. if they couldn't find someone to fix #1

I know the camping world is different from the equipment business. . Just thought it was funny how... with warranty it appears to be exactly the same!

Grant- thanks for jumping in. It's always good to hear a different point of view. I'm happy to hear the end result for JD, I can only hope we go that way in the RV industry. Believe me, if there was money in warranty work, we would all do it but as it is today only a shop that is slower will take it on just to keep guys busy

[vmyoung61]

So many problems could be remedied with good quality control.

Our new line Big Sky has had a wiring issue since we bought it. Two dealers have tried and failed to fix it, yet Keystone continues to tell us it is a "simple fix." They insisted we take it to a 3rd dealer for repair. They wouldn't even consider letting us bring it to the Service Center in Goshen. So far, it's been at the dealer they chose for 6 days and we are no closer to a fix than we were when we dropped it off.

We have experienced some of the worst communication imaginable. Dealer not communicating with us; Dealer not communicating with Keystone; Keystone not communicating with us; Keystone not communicating with dealer. No matter how many messages we leave, nobody will return our calls.

It's so sad. We really love our Big Sky, but we are at wit's end with Keystone.:bang head:

Update: The Big Sky is finally at the Keystone Service Center. After 15 days at Keystone's chosen dealer, they still didn't have a clue as to how to fix it, so they decided to bring it back to the factory. We are so happy that we will soon have our camper fixed!

[sourdough]

I know that dealing with Keystone can be trying from all the posts I have read and some of the communications I've had with them personally. In the end, we have had STELLAR success with them fixing all kinds of things. Some of the items were identified by the service manager after we had owned the trailer for months. Others they just sent in and Keystone approved and I would have bet the house they wouldn't. I don't know what the difference is but I do know that my efforts on my own did not come close to having the same success as going thru my service manager.

[mark1228]

Originally Posted by vmyoung61

So many problems could be remedied with good quality control.

Our new line Big Sky has had a wiring issue since we bought it. Two dealers have tried and failed to fix it, yet Keystone continues to tell us it is a "simple fix." They insisted we take it to a 3rd dealer for repair. They wouldn't even consider letting us bring it to the Service Center in Goshen. So far, it's been at the dealer they chose for 6 days and we are no closer to a fix than we were when we dropped it off.

We have experienced some of the worst communication imaginable. Dealer not communicating with us; Dealer not communicating with Keystone; Keystone not communicating with us; Keystone not communicating with dealer. No matter how many messages we leave, nobody will return our calls.

It's so sad. We really love our Big Sky, but we are at wit's end with Keystone.

Electrical problems are almost always hard. Why? For one, there are 2 totally different electrical systems in your RV. 12 Volt and 120 Volt. 2nd, in my 15 years in the RV business I have never been able to get any manufacturer to provide me with a wiring schematic to know how the RV was wired. Why? Because they don't exist. The Manufacturers themselves can't tell a dealer or repair shop how something was wired. My shop is dealing with a brand new Keystone unit with wiring issues and Keystone has been no help at all. The problem is likely a very easy fix, once someone can find it. This is one reason dealers don't like warranty. They will have way more time in diagnosing the problem then they will ever get paid for. There is no excuse for the lack of communication by the dealer or Keystone, but to be honest I'm surprised they found a dealer to take this on.

[Idahoguy]

Been in new car business, been in new rv business (small light weight rv's), dealt with warranty and customers which can be a real challenge, but life is a challenge. Have a 2015 Alpine 3010RE. Love it's arrangement and it's looks that's why I bought it. Have been thru it top to bottom and had a few issues I fixed myself. First outing will be this weekend, so that will tell me more. .....Anyway, the RV industry gets away with so much. Wiring all over the place 12 volt and 110. Hydraulic lines unprotected every were. Get behind the water works panels and belly board and I wander how it make it down the road. Insulation values are a joke. I could go on forever. It is not a perfect world I know and I don't expect it to be. I am like some other posters in that I hate regulation but the RV industry has gone too far. People are paid at the factories on how fast they can roll them out and lots gets missed and passed to the dealer to fix. Because it is cheaper to pay the dealer than slow down production for better quality. Will not stop me from RVing but hurts like heck to see the poor quality in all RV's. NO manufacturer is immune. I could go on forever. Love the campin rv thing though.

[Bunkhouse]

I'm the original poster and wanted to update everyone.

The hot water, doors, couch, and control panel have all been fixed. The front cap has been repainted. We are now just waiting for the remote system to be finally be fixed. They have replaced the components 4 X. They say they have fixed the wiring, and yet it still doesn't work.

I been having to call or email the dealer, Keystone, and Lippert 2-3 times a day
to push them to get this unit done. What I get is the three of them pointing at each other. I have had it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm livid at this point !!!! While I'm treating all three with respect, I don't feel it is returned.

Any one have any suggestions ? The Dealer on multiple occasions refuses to give me any contact information for a regional manager. The dealer's corporate office just refers my messages to the dealer.

I've now owned this trailer for a full year, and it's been in for repairs for 8 months total !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LIVID!!!

[Rex1vt]

We are supposed to get our unit back this week,it has been at the dealer for only six months of the eleven we have owned it,due to various issues and waiting for parts.I have sent emails and made phone calls to Keystone but no response for a warranty extension for equal time.Oh well,I'm sure they are busy.

UPDATE:2014 327RES Fiver
The six months referred includes time not claimed against Keystone.I have agreement with Keystone for 125 days of loss of service to complete work orders at the dealership.Responsibility for the days lost involves dealer scheduling,dealer receipt of replacement product and time to perform the work.I do not have the necessary information to sort out the process.I do know there was a lot of time lost to obtain a replacement black water tank,LCI control panel,LCI remote board, and decals associated with painting the front cap.It seems to me that all items should be readily available due to simplicity and historic failures.
Keystone has offered a goodwill payment of $200 for my troubles which I accepted with comment it does not imply customer satisfaction.I have also communicated these details to the dealership stating I feel they should be as unhappy with Keystone as I am, since the loss of time is largely the fault of Keystone
based on their failure to stock product for warranty service. My experience doe not bode well for the dealer trying to sell Keystone.
I appreciate the fact Keystone did provide warranty service, but it was a messy process.My warranty period is up April 29,I hope my fiver is now better than new.

[Bunkhouse]

Hello Everyone,

Update: I just picked up our unit about a month ago with everything fixed. We did use the unit through the summer with everything working except for the remote system.

We have not settled with Keystone at this time, but we are talking. They offered a settlement earlier in the year, however all of the repairs had not been completed. I told them we would discuss settlement once all of the repairs had been completed.

[Hideout17]

Originally Posted by Festus2

Chuck -
Thanks for the explanation - it does help. From what you wrote, it appears as though a dealership can make a profit if:
1) the techs are "good at their job",
2) the manufacturer's set pay rate to the dealership is high enough and reasonable,
3) the dealership is "busy"

If the manufacturer's set pay rate is equal to or more than what the dealership's costs are in wages and materials, then it seems like the dealership would either break even or make a profit. Or is this an incorrect assumption and doesn't happen in the real business world?

If a dealership is depending upon their tech's efficiency as to whether or not it will make a profit or suffer a loss on warranty work, then wouldn't it follow that the dealership would quickly show the door to "inefficient techs"? Why keep someone on the payroll who is losing money for you? If a dealership doesn't make any money from warranty work, then shouldn't they take a good look at their tech's ?????

Do automobile dealerships also lose money on warranty work they perform? Or is just the RV industry that does?

I did warranty work at auto dealerships for 25yrs. Very rarely does a tech " make money" with warranty work. Mostly Loose or break even if I was lucky. Over the years warranty time has gone down and work required goes up. Case in point catalytic converter replacement. Diagnosis time plus replacement plus road test with scan tool to Verify repair. Pays .9 total.....takes .5 to .6 on road test after to get required info for warranty to pay for it.....