Considering a 25MLE, looking for opinions

[zuninet]

Morning folks!

We currently have a 2018 Outback 260UML, which has been a fantastic trailer. We're now looking for something with a larger bed, a bit of wardrobe space and slightly larger bathroom. We think we've found that with the 25MLE, and also the Bullet 265FKS. We're leaning to the 25MLE just because the shower is rectangular with a larger sink area and there is a bit more storage in the 25MLE.

Would love to hear any thoughts on the 25MLE from owners and alike, and if there are other floor plans we haven't considered. We are limited to half tonne as I have no interest in a 2500 at this point (that's 7-8 years out for us). We don't travel through mountains or long distances, mostly around our area near Ottawa, Ontario, Canada (typically 100k from our home occasionally 300k).

Thanks!

Tow vehicle:

2020 Silverado 1500 RST with Duramax, 920 hitch, 9200 tow.

[JRTJH]

I'd first ask if you have "shopped the lots" or "shopped the brochures" ???

If you have not yet walked into the 25MLE on a dealer's lot and spent considerable time walking around in it and "pretending to use it in a campsite" then I'd make that visit a priority before making a decision.

Here's why:

1. The trailer interior is 92" wide. A queen bed is 60" wide and a king bed is 70" wide. Doing the math, in a "north/south bedroom, with 92" interior width, with a queen bed, there's 16" on each side of the bed (and 16" wide overhead wardrobes). With a king bed, there's 11" on each side of the bed (and 11" or 12" overhead wardrobes). There is the additional wardrobe, but getting in and out of bed can be problematic as can be trying to balance beside the bed to lean over it and make it every morning.

2. The bath is only slightly larger in square footage, but the square shower "encroaches" further into the room and the position of the toilet makes getting in/out of the shower more difficult for larger people because of the shower door closing off part of the width.

3. The opposing booth dinette booth/sofa arrangement limits the open space between the two, even with the slide open. In your Outback, you have 14" cabinets/open floor/booth and sofa. In the 25MLE you have less space between the booth and the opposing sofa. I'm not suggesting it won't work for you, but you would need to actually spend some time with 2 or more people in that area trying to "shuffle around each other".

4. Your Outback GVWR is 7600 pounds, the 25MLE is 8800 pounds. That's 1200 pounds heavier at GVW. The hitch weight will range from about 11% to 13% for most people. That's 968-1144 plus the weight of your hitch (around 125 pounds). So you may want to do some real world weight verifications on that 920 pound max tongue weight vs what the 25MLE tongue weighs when loaded to travel.

5. Keep in mind that on most "vehicle maximum trailer capacity charts" the maximum trailer weight is calculated with the vehicle at "curb weight" not at "truck GVWR". You can determine which GM used for your truck by looking up the "maximum combined weight" and then subtracting the "Truck GVWR". That will give you the "true maximum allowable trailer weight"... I'd suspect your truck has a GCWR (truck+trailer max) of 15,000. At "curb weight" of 4800 pounds, the max trailer weight is (15000-4800) is 10200, but at "truck GVWR (6800) then the max trailer weight is only (15000-6800) 8200 pounds.

So, doing some "between the brochure boasting" calculations, your truck may not be up to towing a 8800 pound trailer. Even if you "only load lightly" you will probably find that you're going to see some marginal towing or difficult towing in adverse conditions such as gusting crosswinds or even in moderate to heavy sustained crosswinds.

I'd urge you to not only look at the "improved sleeping platform at king bed offers, but also look at access to that platform to get into bed and to make it every morning. And considering the other things above, you may find the 25MLE works for you or you may find that with that larger trailer comes marginal towing performance and possibly a larger truck that's not currently in your playing cards.

Spend some "hands on, in depth time in all the floorplans you're considering to see if you and DW get in each other's way and if the larger bed/bath space really make it nicer or the tradeoffs to get the bigger mattress make other parts of the trailer "not so great"....

[zuninet]

Thanks for the extremely thorough and detailed reply, that must have take some time to do. I to am slightly concerned about weight, although I know we will be no where near the GVWR of that trailer (we travel and pack light). We are contemplating two other trailers (no king bed though), the Imagine 2500RL and 2600RB. Big pluses with the imagine is the shower retractable door and larger windows into the campsite. I may have to lose a few more pounds and deal with a queen

As for seeing in person, absolutely, that is the plan. Although in our area, Keystone dealers are somewhat limited since the main one went out of business. We are going to take a look at the imagine trailers this week and once a 25MLE comes in at another dealer will do the walk through and see if it will work. The bullet is ok, but not a fan of the corner showers and the tiny area in front of the sink.

Thanks for the reply, it certainly gives us something to think about.

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by zuninet

Thanks for the extremely thorough and detailed reply, that must have take some time to do. I to am slightly concerned about weight, although I know we will be no where near the GVWR of that trailer (we travel and pack light). We are contemplating two other trailers (no king bed though), the Imagine 2500RL and 2600RB. Big pluses with the imagine is the shower retractable door and larger windows into the campsite. I may have to lose a few more pounds and deal with a queen

As for seeing in person, absolutely, that is the plan. Although in our area, Keystone dealers are somewhat limited since the main one went out of business. We are going to take a look at the imagine trailers this week and once a 25MLE comes in at another dealer will do the walk through and see if it will work. The bullet is ok, but not a fan of the corner showers and the tiny area in front of the sink.

Thanks for the reply, it certainly gives us something to think about.

Those of us that have been around for a minute have heard the folded statement before, many times actually. Typically it's accompanied with "we don't go far" and "I don't drive fast". It's easy to fall into that narrative because: A. You want it to be true, and B. The salesman/manufacturers endorce ANYTHING if it will close the deal. Just keep in mind that the folks here have no "skin in the game" and most have made the mistake of towing over the trucks capacity.

Good luck in your search & decision.

[zuninet]

Originally Posted by flybouy

Those of us that have been around for a minute have heard the folded statement before, many times actually. Typically it's accompanied with "we don't go far" and "I don't drive fast". It's easy to fall into that narrative because: A. You want it to be true, and B. The salesman/manufacturers endorce ANYTHING if it will close the deal. Just keep in mind that the folks here have no "skin in the game" and most have made the mistake of towing over the trucks capacity.

Good luck in your search & decision.

Yep I get the concern, I’ve been towing trailers for about 22 years myself. Always been well under weight limits, this is the first trailer where it gets a bit tight (due to our current tv). We downsized from a 3/4 tonne as ours needed replacing and the prices over the past few years have gotten completely out of control. Furthermore, I really don’t like how they drive compared to a half tonne.

Given the 260uml was well within weight limits (weighed), we stayed half tonne. We’re planning to go with a fiver and 3/4 tonne when we hit retirement, this next trailer is a stop gap until we’re ready for full time rving.

That all being said, the one thing that bothers me regardless of tv, is room around the bed. It seems to go king you really need a bed slide to make it work and then weight goes through the ceiling for half tonnes. Lots to consider, but the imagine trailers are looking better from a layout / weight point of view.

[CBears]

We love ours. Replacing the king with a full queen would give more space next to bed. Everything else is great IMHO. Sent you a PM a bit ago with more details.

[CBears]

Oops, just read all the replies and see you have a half ton truck currently. I personally would not tow the 25mle with a half ton. My F250 does well but it’s a lot of trailer for a half ton. Just my 2 cents.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by zuninet

Yep I get the concern, I’ve been towing trailers for about 22 years myself. Always been well under weight limits, this is the first trailer where it gets a bit tight (due to our current tv). We downsized from a 3/4 tonne as ours needed replacing and the prices over the past few years have gotten completely out of control. Furthermore, I really don’t like how they drive compared to a half tonne.

Given the 260uml was well within weight limits (weighed), we stayed half tonne. We’re planning to go with a fiver and 3/4 tonne when we hit retirement, this next trailer is a stop gap until we’re ready for full time rving.

That all being said, the one thing that bothers me regardless of tv, is room around the bed. It seems to go king you really need a bed slide to make it work and then weight goes through the ceiling for half tonnes. Lots to consider, but the imagine trailers are looking better from a layout / weight point of view.

A king bed in an RV means you will be cramped...no other way around it. Been in lots of them and no matter which way the bed is turned it is going to be VERY tight when trying to make the bed. Some don't mind....we won't do it. Last 2 trailers came with a king bed and both were uncomfortable to get in/out/around. We aren't small (about 200) but cutting them down to queen size was a great decision.

As far as the truck....it will be marginal at best.

[Rlbccb]

We have a 2024 25MLE. We like the trailer but have one major issue that took some major effort to over come. The shower drain is piped into the black tank and not the bathroom gray tank. This was discovered when the over half full black tank could not hold thw shower drain water and backed up into the shower pan. There is a path to run the drain line to the sink drain line; which we did. This was a major pain to do. Keystone says that this is by design. They obviously don’t camp!

[CBears]

Originally Posted by Rlbccb

We have a 2024 25MLE. We like the trailer but have one major issue that took some major effort to over come. The shower drain is piped into the black tank and not the bathroom gray tank. This was discovered when the over half full black tank could not hold thw shower drain water and backed up into the shower pan. There is a path to run the drain line to the sink drain line; which we did. This was a major pain to do. Keystone says that this is by design. They obviously don’t camp!

Wow. I REALLY don’t like that.

[zuninet]

Wow, that is a poor design choice. Surprised they did that. We ended up going with a Grand Design Imagine trailer that was lighter but still have us most of what we wanted for layout.

[CBears]

Originally Posted by Rlbccb

We have a 2024 25MLE. We like the trailer but have one major issue that took some major effort to over come. The shower drain is piped into the black tank and not the bathroom gray tank. This was discovered when the over half full black tank could not hold thw shower drain water and backed up into the shower pan. There is a path to run the drain line to the sink drain line; which we did. This was a major pain to do. Keystone says that this is by design. They obviously don’t camp!

Did you run to the right instead of left and bring the pipe through the wall under the sink next to the supply lines? That does seem doable.

[Rlbccb]

Originally Posted by CBears

Did you run to the right instead of left and bring the pipe through the wall under the sink next to the supply lines? That does seem doable.

Yes that is exactly what I did. I also cut the pipe going to the black tank and glued a cap on it.

[CBears]

Originally Posted by Rlbccb

Yes that is exactly what I did. I also cut the pipe going to the black tank and glued a cap on it.

Gonna do this before our first trip even. Black tank never been used. Thank you so much for this nugget of info!!!

[wiredgeorge]

Originally Posted by CBears

Gonna do this before our first trip even. Black tank never been used. Thank you so much for this nugget of info!!!

Our shower dumps into our 30 gallon black tank and am familiar with the issue. I dump every two days to avoid the tank bump and subsequent stuff coming up into the shower otherwise.

[jamtracy]

Ok congrats on that. I guess you have a new group to join. Adios

[CBears]

Did the shower drain divert project. I am putting a write up on it in the mods forum if you are interested. Should be there sometime this evening.

Update: https://www.keystoneforums.com/forum...ad.php?t=57211

[GranvillePlace]

Reading these posts had us really concerned as we have a brand new Cougar 25mlewe. We have only had it a week and if the shower drained into the black that would be a game stopper for us as we like to dry camp. Thank you to whomever mentioned the tank labels could be wrong. We ran water through the sink, shower and toilet and yes, the labels were backwards. What a relief for us! We live on the west coast and have the western edition so perhaps that is the explanation.
I am finding this forum to be very helpful and informative, also a bit scary in this instance.

[CBears]

Originally Posted by GranvillePlace

Reading these posts had us really concerned as we have a brand new Cougar 25mlewe. We have only had it a week and if the shower drained into the black that would be a game stopper for us as we like to dry camp. Thank you to whomever mentioned the tank labels could be wrong. We ran water through the sink, shower and toilet and yes, the labels were backwards. What a relief for us! We live on the west coast and have the western edition so perhaps that is the explanation.
I am finding this forum to be very helpful and informative, also a bit scary in this instance.

Are you saying that your shower does go to the gray tank instead of the black tank? If so very lucky!

[GranvillePlace]

Yes I am saying that. When we ran water through the shower it came out from the tank labelled black. When we ran the sink water it also came out the black. When we filled the toilet that water came out from the tank labelled grey. We just changed the labels. I agree we were lucky.