Cougar 25RDS Weight Dilemma

HarryG · 07-02-2023, 02:18 PM

Hi everyone. Looking for a little seasoned guidance here. Just upgraded from a 2012 Outback 210RS that my family enjoyed for 10 years to a new 2022 Cougar 25RDS. I had the dealer transfer the weight distribution hitch system to the new camper. It is a Reese with 800# distribution bars on friction pads. This hitch system worked great on the Outback, but I feel more sway with the 25RDS and my RAM 1500 seems to struggle a little more. Because of this I pulled my camper to a local professional hitch shop to have the hitch system evaluated, thinking I may do better with a little more hitch and distribution. To my surprise, the tech told me that the tongue weight was over 1300 lbs and that he could not do anything to the vehicle because my RAM 1500 is rated for 800 lbs TW based on 10% of 8000 lbs towing capacity. To say I was shocked is an understatement. Leaving there I went to a local Pilot Truck Stop and weighed my rig on the scales and came up with a TW of 1340 lbs.

So I ask myself how can this TW be? The dry weight rating for the camper is 6240 lbs and the GVWR rating is 8800 lbs. The advertised hitch weight is 835 lbs. My wife and I just got back from a short trip and the tanks are empty. The only real weight is in the forward cargo hold and that is no more than 125 lbs. There is no food and little supplies on board. I have two batteries installed. The LP tanks are full but I believe those are included in the dry weight. At the most (and this is being generous) I would say the added cargo would be no more than 400 lbs and the camper should weigh no more than 6700 lbs GVWR.

I do not know where to go from here. Could the advertised dry hitch weight of 835 lbs be a gross underestimate by Keystone? Even If I would accept a 15% TW on my tow vehicle, it is not enough. The current TW of 1340 lbs calculates out to almost 17% TW on the vehicle. Any insights or past experience dealing with this would be appreciated.

Max23 · 07-02-2023, 02:30 PM

Sorry to say, that unit is heavier than mine and I had to swit

ch to a 2500. A half ton truck is just not man enough. Towing capacity is a very deceiving number. It may be able to pull it, but you will be exceeding your payload capacity, rear axle capacity and hitch weight means nothing. Everything you add to the trailer adds weight to your truck payload and hitch. When I put water in my tank, out of 360lbs of water, 260 of that went straight on the truck. You can't even really rely on the old 15% rule of what you add on the trailer,ad 15% of that on the truck. I am much more happy pulling with my 2500. I am again in control of the camper not the camper being in control. It's just weight facts. The camper sales places use towing capacityso it's easy to sell campers. That's about it. Personal experience there.

HarryG · 07-02-2023, 02:42 PM

Thanks for the personal insight. I'm afraid I may be going that direction too. Just wasn't ready for the TW to be that high with such little cargo.

**sourdough** · 07-02-2023, 02:55 PM

The gvwr for that trailer is 8800lbs. 15% of 8800lbs. is 1320....right where you are.

The "guesstimate" they say to use for TW is 10-15% of gvwr...guesstimate. In this case yours falls into that albeit without much in it. Where Keystone gets the dry tongue weight for a specific trailer I don't know and whether it is/was accurate (which I doubt) I don't know. A scale is accurate and real life - and you did it twice.

Where to go? With a tongue weight like that it looks like a 3/4 - 1 ton truck. With that much tongue weight (and possibly growing) I suspect you are probably over the payload/gvwr of the truck when occupants are in it and the weight rating of the receiver. You need to get a wdh with 1400lb. bars when you get to that point.

Looking at the floorplan it may well be that if you load the trailer up the tongue would go down some percentage. I doubt that it would be significant but....

https://www.keystonerv.com/product/c...oorplans/25RDS

HarryG · 07-02-2023, 03:44 PM

Thanks for the reply. I agree the weight is pushing the limits of what I have....without being loaded down.

TXiceman · 07-03-2023, 07:51 AM

I think you are at or over what that truck should be towing. I do feel that a 30 ft. trailer is longer than you should tow with a 1/2-ton truck.

You can never go by the brochure weights as they are for a dry base model trailer. How heavily loaded is the truck, are you towing level, etc.

Ken

GlasNav · 07-03-2023, 08:31 AM

Is the pass thru loaded with heavy gear? We own the last 2021 25RDS to come off the line while the 2022s had already started production, and don't have any sway issues, and we do travel with the freshwater tank pressed full. I haven't put it on the scales since it trims out level without and issues and I only press the airbags to 50 - 60%.
We have a 2019 Ram 1500 Classic, I installed 5000lb AirLifts and use a Husky Centerline hitch. Zero sway, across the rockies 2 roundtrips as well as the other ranges in Calif, as well as two roundtrips to the Florida Panhandle.

GlasNav · 07-03-2023, 08:40 AM

BTW: You didn't state the year or version of your RAM 1500. RAM did down grade the towing capacity of the new design 1500s after the 2019 1500 Classic.

travelin texans · 07-03-2023, 10:35 AM

Unfortunately you aren't alone finding out the numbers by rv/truck manufacturers are useless.
I know this doesn't help your situation but it's done by both rv & truck dealers using the tow capacity of a vehicle vs the dry weight of a rv to determine towing capabilities will ALWAYS result in this outcome, too much rv, too little truck.

HarryG · 07-03-2023, 12:33 PM

The tow vehicle is a 2017 RAM Crew Cab with 4 x 4 and a 5.7 Hemi engine and has the optional 4 corner air suspension. Sounds like you have the goods to get it done with your 1500. I'd love to know what your tongue weight is measuring with a full tank of water. My tanks are empty and the front cargo has maybe 125 lbs in it, so its perplexing that the TW is coming in at 1340 lbs. What is you Huskee Centerline hitch rating?

**sourdough** · 07-03-2023, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryG

The tow vehicle is a 2017 RAM Crew Cab with 4 x 4 and a 5.7 Hemi engine and has the optional 4 corner air suspension. Sounds like you have the goods to get it done with your 1500. I'd love to know what your tongue weight is measuring with a full tank of water. My tanks are empty and the front cargo has maybe 125 lbs in it, so its perplexing that the TW is coming in at 1340 lbs. What is you Huskee Centerline hitch rating?

I'm not following your comment. "Sounds like he has the goods to get it done with your 1500"? The hitch shop would not work on his truck because the trailer was over the truck hitch rating - that's a show stopper right then and there. The '17 Ram CC 4x4, 5.7 and 4 corner suspension tells us nothing other than lost payload due to the CC and added suspension components.

GlasNav · 07-03-2023, 01:31 PM

Husky Centerline rated at 12,000 lbs with tongue 800 - 1200 lbs.

I doubt your actual tongue weight is 1340 lbs, you might want to see if you can locate a dealer with an actual tongue scale and not rely on a weights and measures load scale for tongue weight.

**sourdough** · 07-03-2023, 01:37 PM

The tongue weight seems high but the hitch shop weighed it AND he scaled the truck and came up with the same thing - sounds legit.

GlasNav · 07-03-2023, 02:12 PM

I understand the fact that he put the unit on the scales, and that many of these trailers come in overweight, but 1340 appears too far out of the norm.
Heck, years ago when our kids were young, we towed a 33 ft on the ball of a 15,000 lb rated cowboy drop bumper, no distribution or compensators on a F350 dually, the original 7.3 power stroke with waste gate turbo and other than looking in the mirrors you wouldn't know there was 9000 lbs behind you. However, during Covid when my wife and I decided to get back into this, I selected a trailer around the capabilities of the truck we have and didn't encounter what appears as a considerable weight discrepancy with HarryG's trailer, and it's the same model we have! A little confused....

rhagfo · 07-03-2023, 02:58 PM

HarryG, since you weighed your trailer, you should be able to add the tongue weight, to Thea le weights and get total trailer weight.

SargeW · 07-03-2023, 03:34 PM

I was in the same position as you Harry. I had a new 2022 Ram 1500 and paid close attention to the weight of the trailer when I bought the Keystone 2400 RBWE. The numbers all were under my payload, axle, and towing capacity, but just barely.

I do confess to adding a 2nd AC, a new heavier mattress, and a washer/dryer combo in the back. The trailer still scales out comfortably under it's GVWR, but my payload was close to max with that load. I did add air bags in the back, and am using an Andersen weight distributing hitch. I got the loads figured out and had everything under load limits, but the ride wasn't great. I've owned and pulled or "pushed" various RV's for 25 years, and this one just wasn't comfortable as it should have been.

Last week I traded up to a Ram 2500 4X4 with the 6.4 Hemi. One trip to the scale was night and day as far as ride comfort goes. And the scale showed me that with the TT on I now have over 2000 pounds of room of payload available on the rear axle.

So the moral of the story is don't sweat it out trying to make a borderline (or less) vehicle work for you. Life is short, make it as easy and fun as you can.

HarryG · 07-03-2023, 06:36 PM

Great feedback from all and it is greatly appreciated. As tempting as it is to upgrade my weight distribution hitch and try to get a level ride, I don't think I will ever be comfortable driving long distances knowing that it is already maxing out my payload and TW.... unloaded. And we plan on making trips out west and I know the mountains don't play out there. Seems like gross negligence from Keystone in regard to the advertised TW, but that is water under the bridge for me now. May make another trip to a different scale just to put to bed any question of TW. And then if nothing changes..... start shopping for a new truck?

**sourdough** · 07-03-2023, 07:55 PM

How/why the tongue weight is what is it I don't know. I do know 2 independent weigh sessions telling me that same thing...OK. I know a specialized hitch shop telling me that they aren't going to mess with me because what I have is beyond the truck capability and more or less dangerous...I'm out and a new truck is in.....for too many important things (family/life) in the equation.
Now the old conversation of 3/4 vs 1 ton - btdt. You need a new truck for the trailer...by what you've presented I don't think that can be refuted. If buying a new truck (used?) always remember that the cost between the 1 ton and 3/4 is minimal. Ride difference is negligible. Payload? Priceless. Good luck and sorry for the situation....it is repeated constantly.

Bob1970 · 07-09-2023, 08:06 AM

Have a look at this video. Lots of good info that will hopefully give you some answers. This guy is good and there is less opinion and more fact. Best of luck.
We tow with a 1/2 ton, but is has a max tow package, 1700+ payload package, 20"wheels etc. I sought all the additional features specifically to tow our trailer.
https://youtu.be/qwFLOBrADBs

WDPatterson · 07-09-2023, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryG

Great feedback from all and it is greatly appreciated. As tempting as it is to upgrade my weight distribution hitch and try to get a level ride, I don't think I will ever be comfortable driving long distances knowing that it is already maxing out my payload and TW.... unloaded. And we plan on making trips out west and I know the mountains don't play out there. Seems like gross negligence from Keystone in regard to the advertised TW, but that is water under the bridge for me now. May make another trip to a different scale just to put to bed any question of TW. And then if nothing changes..... start shopping for a new truck?

You just need to get a bigger truck. You'll enjoy the trip so much more!

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