Letter to CEO, no reply from Keystone.

[Hfiles]

April 14, 2014

Keystone RV Company

Mr. Ronald J. Fenech, CEO
600 East Boulevard
Elkhart , Indiana 46514

Mr. Fenech

On February 6, 2014, I purchased a 327 Keystone Carbon Toy Hauler, VIN: 4099, from Mike Thompson RV, Colton CA. When we first inspected the 5th wheel/trailer prior to our first trip we noticed after removing the plastic from the mattress that the entire side of the mattress was torn. After notifying our dealer (Mike Thompson RV) we were advised to go ahead with our trip and either bring the trailer back to California or find a Keystone Repair Service in our area.

Instead of driving back to California, on March 10, 2014 I took my new Carbon 327 into Sunshine RV, 2995 Maricopa Ave, Lake Havasu City, AZ 86406 (928) 855-0009 for warranty work on several issues.

Items 1 and 2 were completed; Items 3 thru 5 are still pending.

1 They found the water leak associated to the black waste tank that caused the entire front storage area to be flooded.

2 They replaced the screws that fell out of the fuel tank door cover while driving on the freeway (which if the door had fallen off or come open and the nozzle fell out it could have caused a major accident on the freeway, NTSB advised). [/B]They also replaced the screws that fell out while driving that hold the wheel cover area on the slider from flapping in the wind.

3 They were also going to replace the mattress where one entire side is torn; however they were told by your company that you would just send a mattress cover. (This is not acceptable to us; the RV is brand new, the mattress is brand new and damaged and we expect a new mattress).

4 In addition to the above items, the slide out on the couch side tore a 2” by 5” piece of the linoleum floor covering as well as 2 other gouges while it was being opened at the RV repair location.

5 The bracket holding the wheel cover side on one of the slide outs is cracked in half, poor design.



I have called several times to discuss the issue regarding the issues and the mattress. My last call was with one of your customer assistants Mr. Nickolas Cotner who advised me that the mattress was approved however the RV Dealer has to resubmit the request. I requested to speak to a supervisor do discuss the reasoning behind the resubmit request and was refused. Finally I was given the supervisors name of Mr. Steven Homes and was told he is not available, at which time I requested him to contact me. Since this request I have not heard from him, however Mr. Cotner called back to advise me the matter is now taken care of, if I wish the mattress can be shipped to me or a $150.00 credit, I’m sorry but what part of this do your assistants not understand from the beginning, ship the mattress to the RV dealer that requested it.

I cannot believe a major corporation like yours deals with their consumers in this manner. I truly believe this is an intentional act based on the conversations I have had with your customer assistants and others that have had to deal with your warranty department and that includes dealers that have to wait weeks in getting things approved and product shipped out to them. Maybe you should model your company after Ford, there they have people in place that can make decisions, vendors that can supply product in a timely manner and get the entire job done in a timely manner not to inconvenience their customer. I don’t know about your time but my time is costly and when I have to make more than one phone call to adjudicate an issue it cost me.

I would appreciate your prompt attention to this matter, I have several trips planned within the next several weeks and months and would like to have the trailer in good condition.

I would appreciate a reply so I know how to proceed and have the repairs done in a timely manner.

Sincerely,



Cc: NTSB
BBB
Mike Thompson RV

[SAD]

Certainly frustrating. And I hope you get your issues resolved. However, no one associated with Keystone works for or on this forum. You'll get sympathy and perhaps some ideas to try.... But no corporate action. Just FYI.

[Festus2]

Hfiles -
x2 SAD's comment. Regarding the mattress........ Many members have concluded, after a few nights (or less than that) on the OEM mattress, that it is not worth keeping and have replaced it with a variety of other mattress types. This has been done at the owner's expense all within the warranty period.
I'm not trying to minimize the torn mattress problem - you are right - it should be in new condition. I'd be surprised if you too did not replace the very poor quality mattress that is supplied.

Seems like your best bet at the moment is to work with the dealer/service center about the floor. You could be fighting with Keystone for a long time over that.

Good luck in getting your issues resolved in a timely manner. As difficult as it may be, try to avoid getting into a confrontation with Keystone ---- I hate to say this but you'll probably come out second best.

[SAD]

I am struggling with clicking "buy now" on a dang temperpedic for the camper. I LOOOOOOVE our temperpedic at home, and am spoiled enough to despise anything lesser. Crap.... They just cost so much!!!

[Bob Landry]

I sympathize with you, however, you are in a fight with the 800 lb Gorilla. I consider myself fortunate in that I have had one warranty issue that was resolved, believe it or not, by a non-selling dealer. There have been other issues, but I was able to correct them myself with a result that would have been a higher quality than the dealer anyway. I have attempted to obtain information from KS on various occasions and have been rejected under the guise of either customer safety or protection of proprietary information. Electrical wiring is proprietary? Really?
While I am not unhappy with my current trailer, my dealings with KS Customer No-Service gives me second thoughts and I seriously doubt my next purchase will be a Keystone. To chance having two decent trailers in a row, in my opinion, would be really pushing the envelope, and I think there are trailers out there of better quality at close to the same price point I think the parent company is quite happy with the one-time buyer market and I wish them well with that.

[Hoojs12840]

I can appreciate your frustration. With today's technology and the cost of these units, quality control is lacking. Should you need to go through 5 people to get something obvious resolved??? No, but such is the way something's are. However the "tone" of your email would not gain the willing ear of anyone. Reporting a one time issue to NTSB? Little bit of overreach there and it damaged your credibility. You always get more flys with honey. Regardless of title, everyone at Keystone are people like you and I. Some good, some bad at their jobs. They don't get up everyday thinking how they can make someone's RV adventure bad. I'm not excusing the poor CS job, but overreacting and pointing out how others are better is not helping your cause.

[Tinbender]

Not being critical of any ones post but I just have to say, it never fails to amaze me when a person posts about a problem with a new product on these forums he is told by any number of posters that basically "well it's to bad but that's the way it is just accept it"
If it had been a new tow vehicle with the seat torn all down one side should he just accept that the dealer/manufacturer didn't want to address his concern?

I have read this same type posting on here dozens of times in the last year or so with the same type answers, like I said never fails to amaze me.

[BobnLee]

I had to take my trailer in for warranty work once where the slide roof was leaking. They said they were too busy to fix it because of all the new trailers being prepared for the new owners. Once you leave the lot they really dont want to see you back until the warranty is done, after that they welcome you with open arms. Im not saying I had a bad experience with the dealership I dealt with, I didnt but they are just in it to make the sale. My trailer wont be back .Its easier to do your maintenance and repairs than to deal with them. Keystone should be ashamed but when they have the majority of the market, do they really care about a few disgruntled customers? Never had a problem with Ford, they look after the truck and if it is warranty work they dont question it they fix it right away they dont leave it parked for 3 weeks

[Festus2]

Originally Posted by Tinbender

Not being critical of any ones post but I just have to say, it never fails to amaze me when a person posts about a problem with a new product on these forums he is told by any number of posters that basically "well it's to bad but that's the way it is just accept it"
If it had been a new tow vehicle with the seat torn all down one side should he just accept that the dealer/manufacturer didn't want to address his concern?

I have read this same type posting on here dozens of times in the last year or so with the same type answers, like I said never fails to amaze me.

I don't think that we are saying "it's too bad but that's the way it is. Just accept it." What I tried to point out in my response was that the OP would probably be better off in the short term by working with dealer and any future dealings with Keystone should not be confrontational. People don't get too far with that kind of approach. I didn't say he should just roll over and accept everything but indicated that his dealings with Keystone will probably be a long, drawn-out process and being argumentative and confrontational will not produce any results.

I also stated that the torn mattress was not something that he should expect with a new unit but also that, because of the poor quality of the original mattress, he would probably end up "replacing the replacement" sooner rather than later. Keystone will probably end up giving him another crummy mattress.

[Western Traveler]

Hfiles,
Sorry to hear of your problems with the rig. I know I would be upset if I received the "run around" over issues that clearly needed to be addressed. It is a big financial commitment and when we keep our part of the agreement it is reasonable to expect them do the same.
We have been fortunate so far to only have had a few minor issues.
Most were addressed by Mike Thompson's Fountain Valley at the time of the PDI. They were great to us but that was of course prior to us excepting delivery. With a little under 1500 miles on our TT and many nights we are still in the honeymoon stage and thrilled with the unit. I was pre warned about cabinet screws and that is my next project. Then brake adjustments and bearings being greased.
Hopefully you get through this and end up being a Happy Camper enjoying your new rig.

[mazboy123]

I just happen to have steve holmes' business email address so I dropped him a quick note regarding your letter.

sorry you are having a number of problems but that is just the way RVs are. For my Montana I have taken it back to the company's service center and have always received great service.

I am surprised that your dealer hasn't corrected all of your 5 issues...you gotta wonder why note.


And, just my input regarding the mattresses in RVs, they suck and the first thing I do is buy a new mattress from a mattress store.

[GaryWT]

Always good when someones first post is a negative situation. In all my camping life I have never contacted the manufacturer. To me, I work with the dealer and they work with the manufacturer. A good dealer will fight for you and get what you need. If you don't like the answer from the dealer, ask them to try again. We had a matress issue one, it was dirty and we asked for a replacement, the dealer asked us if we wanted it shipped to the house to save us a trip which worked out great. Once I had to leave the trailer for about 2 weeks to have them get approval and get things fixed, unfortunately for some parts, the approval does not come from Keystone but for the part manufacturer, as an example, electric corner jacks, motor issue, the product manufacturer was involved, not Keystone. It is different with cars.

[Hoojs12840]

All manufactures have issues, and the dealer is the difference maker. Our new RV has a awning issue. They were prompt and communicated well what they were going to do. I had a FORD that came with the wrong spare tire (bolt pattern) imagine finding that out at 1130 at night. Had to have it towed, dealer didn't want to deal with it, but after putting my foot down it was handled.

Contacting the manufacture is the "nuclear option" and should be only a last resort when their dealer network has failed completely.

[airforceret]

Good luck! Mine is going on 6 or 7 weeks at the dealer now... I'm beginning to wonder if I'll get to use it this summer! Talked with them today and earliest they forecast me having a chance to get it back now is next week sometime!

In some ways I'm fortunate as I still have my 2011 Forest River that I never sold or traded.

[Hfiles]

April 28, 2014

Keystone RV Company

After filing several complaints with various entities; Letter to CEO for Keystone, BBB and NHTSA, I received a phone call from Mr. Steven Homes, Keystone Warranty Manager. After discussing the various issues and their customer service, Mr. Holmes assured me he would investigate and make sure it doesn’t happen to me or other customers in the future. Mr. Home’s apologized for the service I received and if there are future issues to call him direct.

Based on our conversation I accept his/Keystone’s apologize and will monitor future warranty issues.

All items have been approved by Keystone, RV Dealer notified and guess what the mattress will be here on Friday.

In the future, I highly recommended starting at the TOP and let things roll down hill. I want to thank all of you for your infomation and help.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by Hfiles

April 28, 2014



In the future, I highly recommended starting at the TOP and let things roll down hill. I want to thank all of you for your infomation and help.

So you're saying to omit the dealership and deal directly with Keystone? I'm not a betting man, but I'd wager that you'll get a reputation with every CS rep at Keystone and while you may get "service" this time, they will find a way to get you back to the dealership to even get a screw tightened. What comes around goes around and becoming a "hemorrhoid" won't get you any consideration past what "has to be done for him" You won't be on the "take care of him list" at any dealership that gets wind of that kind of attitude.

[2011 keystone]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

So you're saying to omit the dealership and deal directly with Keystone? I'm not a betting man, but I'd wager that you'll get a reputation with every CS rep at Keystone and while you may get "service" this time, they will find a way to get you back to the dealership to even get a screw tightened. What comes around goes around and becoming a "hemorrhoid" won't get you any consideration past what "has to be done for him" You won't be on the "take care of him list" at any dealership that gets wind of that kind of attitude.

X2 very well stated JRTJH!!!

[Western Traveler]

...and we wonder why some have, oh never mind.

[Floton]

[quote name="Hfiles" post=124683]April 28, 2014<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
In the future, I highly recommended starting at the TOP and let things roll down hill. I want to thank all of you for your infomation and help.[/QUOTE]<br />
<br />
So you're saying to omit the dealership and deal directly with Keystone? I'm not a betting man, but I'd wager that you'll get a reputation with every CS rep at Keystone and while you may get "service" this time, they will find a way to get you back to the dealership to even get a screw tightened. What comes around goes around and becoming a "hemorrhoid" won't get you any consideration past what "has to be done for him" You won't be on the "take care of him list" at any dealership that gets wind of that kind of attitude.

X3

[x96mnn]

I am not sure the dealer would look poorly on what the OP did. All he appears to have done is light a fire under keystone to make sure the dealer was in-powered to look after them. Keystone may not like it but I am sure the dealer likes it even less not being able to service a customer the way they want.


I am very glad that the situation turned out to the OPs satisfaction and I hope this is not the last time we hear from them!